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  1. #31
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Fairfax, Virginia
    Quote Originally Posted by DocGKR View Post
    I put 500-750 rds of FMJ through the pistol. If all is good, then 100-250 rounds of duty ammo. If things functioned without issues, then I carry it without worries.
    Thanks DocGKR. Sounds like a reasonable guideline that I will hang on to.

    Thanks all.
    "You are no more armed because you are wearing a pistol than you are a musician because you own a guitar." -- Jeff Cooper, in "Principles Of Personal Defense"

  2. #32
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Kentucky The Dark and Bloody Hunting Ground
    Both the 147 gr HST and 124 gr +P HST rounds are among the finest 9 mm duty loads currently available.[/QUOTE]



    So what is the deciding factor or factors in which gr to carry?

  3. #33
    S.M.E. & STAFF
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Palo Alto, CA
    What is more accurate and reliable in your pistol?

    Which can you reliably procure at a reasonable price?

    I use the 147 gr; ToddG uses the 124 gr +P; look at ATK's own data and decide which performance parameters you wish to emphasize: http://le.atk.com/pdf/HSTInsertPoster.pdf

  4. #34
    Great Post. How many autopsy's of human shooting victims have you attended and does that factor in your evaluation of ammunition performance?

  5. #35
    S.M.E. & STAFF
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Palo Alto, CA
    A variety of equally important methodologies are used for terminal performance testing, including actual shooting incident reconstruction, forensic evidence analysis, and post-mortem data and/or surgical findings; properly conducted ethical animal test results; and laboratory testing—this includes the use of tissue simulants proven to have correlation with living tissue. Some individuals seem to be under the mistaken impression that one of these areas is more important than others--this is not the case, as each category provides important information to researchers.

    My background can be found on page 2 of an open source briefing I presented a few years ago: http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2008Intl/Roberts.pdf.

  6. #36
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Camp Bondsteel, Kosovo
    Thanks for the updates, Doc!
    Mike

  7. #37
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Ohio
    Quote Originally Posted by DocGKR View Post
    We have had no LE requests for evaluation of the 147 gr +P HST and thus have not tested it; however, I will see if our ATK rep has a box they can spare and run some tests in the next few months.

    The 147 gr GS works OK.

    9mm Rem 147 gr JHP Golden Saber GS9MMC fired from S&W 5906 at ave vel of 1024 f/s; 5 shot ave below:
    BG: Pen = 14.8”, RD = 0.59”, RL = 0.43”, RW = 147.8 gr
    4LD: Pen = 18.3”, RD = 0.58”, RL = 0.51”, RW = 147.7 gr
    Doc,

    I know the 147gr GS is on your approved list, but am curious why you consider it only OK. The figures listed above make it seem more impressive than some of the highly recommended ones. I know different folks weigh different aspects more importantly than others, so I'm curious of your thoughts on this specific round. Has it just not been as thoroughly and extensively tested as other options?

    Thanks

  8. #38

    Question HST in Canada?

    Has anyone ever seen the HST show up anywhere in Canada. Finding Winchester Ranger T series is almost impossible. I would suspect that the HST would be even harder to find up here.

  9. #39
    S.M.E., STAFF, Very Pro Dentist,
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Down the road from Quantrill's big raid.
    Quote Originally Posted by 396 View Post
    Doc,

    I know the 147gr GS is on your approved list, but am curious why you consider it only OK. The figures listed above make it seem more impressive than some of the highly recommended ones. I know different folks weigh different aspects more importantly than others, so I'm curious of your thoughts on this specific round. Has it just not been as thoroughly and extensively tested as other options?

    Thanks
    For a duty round I don't think it does as well as the others through glass, which can be very important to some folks depending on mission profile.

    If it was what I could get a good supply of I would carry it off-duty and have no worries.

  10. #40
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Ohio
    Quote Originally Posted by tpd223 View Post
    For a duty round I don't think it does as well as the others through glass, which can be very important to some folks depending on mission profile.

    If it was what I could get a good supply of I would carry it off-duty and have no worries.
    Thank you.

 

 

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