A Tale of Two Boxes of M882 ball

[DocGKR]

Two different boxes of 9 mm M882 FMJ were donated to assess any differences in external ballistic characteristics between the two. The brown box was produced by Olin when they ran Lake City and had cartridges with Winchester “WCC” headstamps, while the white box was produced while ATK was running Lake City and had Federal Cartridge “FC” headstamps on the cartridges. Note that Federal AE9FP 147 gr FMJ was used as a control load.

Testing was conducted with a gen 3 G34 with OEM barrel and a gen 3 G19 with OEM barrel. Accuracy was assessed shooting freestyle slowfire at an NRA B8 target at 25 yds. Below are the average velocities and scores for each combination.

Brown WCC/G34: ave vel = 1259 fps; score = 79-0x (large group centered approx. 4” high, 4” left)
Brown WCC/G19: ave vel = 1192 fps; score = 78-0x (large group centered approx. 4” high, 4” left)
White FC/G34: ave vel = 1135 fps; score = 77-0x (large group centered approx. 4” high, 4” left)
White FC/G19; ave vel = 1085 fps; score = 74-0x (large group centered approx. 4” high, 4” left)
Fed AE9FP/G34; ave vel = 946.7 fps; score = 92-1x (small group centered on x-ring w/one called flyer low in 8 ring)
Fed AE9FP/G19; ave vel = 930 fps; score = 95-5x (small group centered on x-ring)

Interestingly there was the over 100 fps ave velocity difference between the M882 in the brown box compared to that in the white box. Recoil was noticeably more stout with the Olin/Winchester brown box cartridges. In addition, both boxes of M882 induced a significant zero shift and were substantially less accurate than generic American Eagle 147 gr FMJ in these two Glock pistols with OEM barrels.

[Suvorov]

Thanks for doing this Doctor! It does seem to lend credence to the claims that early M882 ball was on the hot side and the Federal commercial ball had been downloaded as the rep told me. How much velocity deviation was there between shots?

[DocGKR]

Brown box had a 53 fps spread.
White box had a 52 fps spread.
AE9FP had a 17 fps spread.

The Olin/Win WCC cartridges definitely felt more brisk when shot compared to the other two loads...

[ffhounddog]

I know there has a few changes to the M882 standard since 1985 but I had not heard of a replacement of the 385 m/s velocity spec. Could ATK be using 1263fps for SMGs in their teast barrel?

Maybe its a change in spec for the M9s that are past their lifecycle?

Fascinating, thanks Doc.

[okie john]

How big were the groups?


Okie John

[Jeep]

Two different boxes of 9 mm M882 FMJ were donated to assess any differences in external ballistic characteristics between the two. The brown box was produced by Olin when they ran Lake City and had cartridges with Winchester “WCC” headstamps, while the white box was produced while ATK was running Lake City and had Federal Cartridge “FC” headstamps on the cartridges. Note that Federal AE9FP 147 gr FMJ was used as a control load.

Testing was conducted with a gen 3 G34 with OEM barrel and a gen 3 G19 with OEM barrel. Accuracy was assessed shooting freestyle slowfire at an NRA B8 target at 25 yds. Below are the average velocities and scores for each combination.

Brown WCC/G34: ave vel = 1259 fps; score = 79-0x (large group centered approx. 4” high, 4” left)
Brown WCC/G19: ave vel = 1192 fps; score = 78-0x (large group centered approx. 4” high, 4” left)
White FC/G34: ave vel = 1135 fps; score = 77-0x (large group centered approx. 4” high, 4” left)
White FC/G19; ave vel = 1085 fps; score = 74-0x (large group centered approx. 4” high, 4” left)
Fed AE9FP/G34; ave vel = 946.7 fps; score = 92-1x (small group centered on x-ring w/one called flyer low in 8 ring)
Fed AE9FP/G19; ave vel = 930 fps; score = 95-5x (small group centered on x-ring)

Interestingly there was the over 100 fps ave velocity difference between the M882 in the brown box compared to that in the white box. Recoil was noticeably more stout with the Olin/Winchester brown box cartridges. In addition, both boxes of M882 induced a significant zero shift and were substantially less accurate than generic American Eagle 147 gr FMJ in these two Glock pistols with OEM barrels.

I suppose the powers that be really believe that all of this is "close enough for government work."

[JV_]

I suppose the powers that be really believe that all of this is "close enough for government work."

Having been on both sides of the fence, I usually see this with the product/results of government workers, not on contracts/contractors.

[DocGKR]

okie john--M882 groups average spread was approximately 9" tall by 6" wide.

AE9FP ave group spread was 4.5" x 4.5".

[5pins]

We are assuming that Federal is loading the civilian “white box” to the same specs as the military ammo. The military requirement for M882 DODIC A363 is a muzzle velocity of 1263fps +/- 5fps at 15 feet from muzzle. That is more in line with the Winchester ammo that Doc tested.

I have some recent M882, 2011 IIRC, that I can test when I have the opportunity. It will be interesting to see how it compares to Doc’s results.

[Suvorov]

Could the velocity spread, and thus target spread be something that long term (15-20 years) storage in non controlled environments cause? The brown box spent some time in a storage shed in Wyoming, where it was joined by the white box and stored a detached garage in Iowa for 2 years, and finally a detached garage in the Bay Area peninsula. Not a whole lot of wild temperature fluctuation (Iowa would have been the worse) but certainly not super ideal.

We are assuming that Federal is loading the civilian “white box” to the same specs as the military ammo. The military requirement for M882 DODIC A363 is a muzzle velocity of 1263fps +/- 5fps at 15 feet from muzzle. That is more in line with the Winchester ammo that Doc tested.

I have some recent M882, 2011 IIRC, that I can test when I have the opportunity. It will be interesting to see how it compares to Doc’s results.

Yes, the white box ammo was purchased while I was at Ft Sill in 1996 (Outdoor America if I recall correctly). I was concerned about the pressure of this load (as I had used the brown box ammo while on my State marksmanship team and knew it to be hot so I wanted to be sure before I bought several cases) so I called Federal. The rep I spoke with said that the was not as "hot as true M882" whatever that meant. I have been wondering about this for quite a while as it seems that much of the data in the forums has been collected using commercial M882 so may not be a true representation of what .mil issue M882 is doing.

DocKGR was kind enough to test this ammo as I don't have a chronograph and frankly his findings hold a lot more weight than mine would.

I find it real interesting like you do how close the WWC ammo comes to the DODIC specs. Something which some people on the internet have said is only possible from a test barrel and in no way what a service gun can produce.