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Thread: Too much time on my hands...but interesting data-point regarding sealed ammo!

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    Too much time on my hands...but interesting data-point regarding sealed ammo!

    I know this is indicative of too much time on my hands, but really, I have enough serious business to deal with at work up at the hospital, and stupid little projects like this are fun for me. So please, spare the "this is useless" type comments. It's fun, it's interesting, and it's more socially acceptable than going shooting at 4am where I live. So, without further ado...


    What?

    Sealed ammunition has become a concern of mine. Why? I am curious if the ammunition without sealed case necks is G2G in environmental extremes. Why? Because. Also, because Dr. Roberts says ammunition for duty use should be sealed, last I recall from previous conversations. None of the TSX/GMX 5.56 ammunition, which is my favorite, comes with a sealed case neck except the X135, which is at the whim of my supplier, and not at my whim as a purchaser. So I am looking for civilian-saleable alternatives. But none have case-neck sealant...but does it matter?

    How?

    This got me to thinking about one of my friends, and his watch hobby. He talks to me often about it, and how the watch mechanics (jewelers?) out there have machines which will test watches at many ATM's. So why not use this to test ammo? Well, because I don't have one, and it's expensive. So, I figure...what if I tie ammo to a string? Drop it in a deep portion of the lake? Then came the question of logistics (a boat, a bridge, looking mighty suspicious, etc.). So that led me to wonder...what about carbonated water? Pressure is pressure, and water is water...I recalled that sodas are carbonated at 2-3 ATM's, and 2 ATM's is PLENTY for ammo to withstand. It's about the same as many optics. So, I recalled the most explosive mineral water I've bought in a while...TOPO CHICO out of Mexico. My local Kroger handles it. But what's the ATM? Well...I YouTube'd, and what do you know? I have a crazy Mexican twin out there who is also curious about same: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZT8hVEBXMk 2.2 bar. Wow! I recall SeanM from this board saying that he has had ammo ruined on 15-30ft depth swims, which aligns nicely with my "test-chamber"...a bottle of Topo Chico...

    Method:

    I remembered from highschool that cold liquids will dissolve and hold more CO2 than hot liquids, so my first move is to get the Topo down to around freezing. Next, is to crack 'er open, and dump 3 rounds of each ammo to be tested in, and seal it back quickly, then shake it, and then heat the bottle to around 80*F or so. This should provide AT LEAST 2.2 bar. The hotter the liquid, the higher the pressure due to escaping CO2.

    The test subjects:

    3 rounds of Hornady TAP GMX 5.56 55gr
    3 rounds of MK318 SOST (control sealed)
    3 rounds of Federal bulk target .22LR (controlled un-sealed...expected to fail)
    3 rounds of Barnes 50gr TSX 5.56

    Let them sit in the "chamber" for an hour, take them down, and see which one's have the clumpy powder!

    Pictures to follow...
    Last edited by Unobtanium; 01-27-2015 at 06:19 AM.

  2. #2
    Very Pro Dentist Chuck Haggard's Avatar
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    You could buy a Soda Stream system and pressurize all the ammo you ever wanted to............
    I am the owner of Agile/Training and Consulting
    www.agiletactical.com

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    Ammo to be tested:


    The test bottle on the right is easily under more pressure than the un-opened bottle. Note how it has actually grown slightly (they are both sitting on the same level surface) and the cap is bulged out more. It has been sitting in a sink full of hot water for the last half hour. It feels noticeably harder to dimple with firm pressure from a thumb than the un-opened bottle.:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Haggard View Post
    You could buy a Soda Stream system and pressurize all the ammo you ever wanted to............
    No doubt, this was $1/ea, I believe.

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    All cartridges except the MK318 were filled with clumped powder. The 3 MK318 cases were shiny and clump-free/powder-free inside when dumped out, the exception being one that had a few grains of powder clinging to the inner shoulder of the case-neck, but this could be contamination from already wet powder flying around in the impact puller. The rest of its insides were shiny, and powder free.

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    Wee bit dismayed. Seems a washing machine kills 5.56 ammo just as dead as my ghetto pressure-chamber. Few rounds of Hornady TAP LE 55gr GMX were in my pockets and made it to the washer, found them before the drier. Clumped powder in each one.

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    Site Supporter Hambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unobtanium View Post
    Wee bit dismayed. Seems a washing machine kills 5.56 ammo just as dead as my ghetto pressure-chamber. Few rounds of Hornady TAP LE 55gr GMX were in my pockets and made it to the washer, found them before the drier. Clumped powder in each one.
    You should try test firing after immersion.
    "Gunfighting is a thinking man's game. So we might want to bring thinking back into it."-MDFA

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    Member Corlissimo's Avatar
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    I find this interesting, even if I never go swimming with my guns on, it's a good thought, and practical, experiment in my mind.

    Now for the big question: How long before DocGKR updates the Acceptable Defense Ammunition list with the appropriate stats?
    If you can't taste the sarcasm, try licking the screen.

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  9. #9
    Very Pro Dentist Chuck Haggard's Avatar
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    I'd say test firing is the real "test".

    FWIW, I've had at least a couple hundred rounds of various Speer and Federal 9mm ball go through my washing machine over the years, never had a dud from doing so.
    I am the owner of Agile/Training and Consulting
    www.agiletactical.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Corlissimo View Post
    I find this interesting, even if I never go swimming with my guns on, it's a good thought, and practical, experiment in my mind.

    Now for the big question: How long before DocGKR updates the Acceptable Defense Ammunition list with the appropriate stats?
    He has said over and over that sealed ammo is the way to go, but almost all of the loads that made the list are not. So I doubt it will be revised.

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