Pursuit of the next decade rifle(s)

[rob_s]

Tl:Dr version-
Buy two KAC SR15 mod2s (16" and 11.5" when it happens) or get new uppers for existing big-pin Colts and wind up with three guns (one 16", one 11.5" unsuppressed, one 10.5" suppressed)?

The following is posted somewhat for posterity (so I can refer back when I change my mind later), partly for discussion (to make me accountable for and defend my choices), and for outside input (to see if I'm missing a product or theory that I hadn't thought of).

First, I should say that I'm a plenty competent carbine shooter. no Daniel Horner or Osama-killer, but for a guy that is a non-professional user with a family and white-collar job, I do ok. None of the below is meant as replacing skill or training with hardware. I have a bunch of training, I'll probably go back for a little more once this is resolved, and I practice as often as I believe I need to. In a field of 15-25 shooters at our monthly matches I've shown that I can win, if not come in just behind the winner, with a gun with a stock trigger, iron sights, and a fixed stock. I'm pretty secure in the hardware:software relationship when it comes to carbines.

It's been nearly 8 years since I wrote this
http://tacticalyellowvisor.net/8301/11801.html

During the course of those 8 years neither gun has changed substantively, and in fact some changes that were briefly made were redacted in short order. In other words, both of these guns have served me very, very well, in the configurations you see in the pictures. This, in spite of the fact that the "mission" (as I so naively called it in the article) has morphed, as have my opinions, priorities, etc. Some might say that this is an indicator that I chose good parts to begin with, but I might argue that I simply got lucky, and parts don't really matter all that much. This coming from someone that evaluated a LOT of parts, whether free, on loan, or purchased. However, it would be naively stated today if I were to say that parts do not matter at all, especially when it comes to quality, reliability, and longevity. Of all people, I know this about ARs better than most do.

For the record, the primary changes to the guns have been:
-Lights. X300s mounted at 12 o'clock on both guns.
-VFGs. stubby versions of the TD shown, moved further forward.
-Slings. while the BFGs shown are still useful, the forward attachment point has moved forward.
-Optics. The 16" gun still carries the TA33, while the little gun now carries a 30mm Aimpoint.
-Stocks. Both guns have stocks that use integral rubber pads instead of having to zip-tie them on.

As my life priorities change, and my shooting activities change, and my opinions on use of, and potential use of, firearms change, I find myself looking for a change. In no small part in order to streamline, as these two are not my only ARs, but certainly could (should?) be. I fear the barrel on the big gun is beginning to induce some spread, and in looking for a new decade gun I think there may be options available now, or forthcoming, that are better now and will stay better for longer.

I am, however, still a big believer in standardization. In other words, the contact points on the gun (grips, stock, sling, handguards), operation of the gun (trigger, safety, bolt catch, mag release), and other minutiae (caliber, multi-gun suppressor, sigh picture) should all be identical, or as practically close to identical, as possible.

There is a part of my post-fiddle-fuck self that really just wants to go buy an SR15 MOD2 change the pistol grip, add a sling and Leupold 1-6x multigun and call it good. Eventually they'll come out with an 11.5" version of the gun, I can stick the 30mm Aimpoint on it (or a Micro, if you must) and if I add the right suppressor/mount I can use a can on both/either, plus potential future AK and/or .308 hog gun. That would seem to be the "best", least-fiddle-F solution.

Then there are the budget constraints (two SR15s is a serious chunk of change), the pragmatic constraints (both of the guns pictured are big-trigger-pin Colts, meaning they are likely not very desirable on the used market), and the simple I-want-"better" constraints (I think a 10.3", dedicated suppressed gun with tuned gas system and brake mount to protect the can is better than having one SBR that the can is sometimes on, sometimes off).

Which leads me to Option B, which is to keep the two lowers pictured, plus the third 6933 lower I still have (also big-pin), buy new BCM uppers from the two pictured (16" barrel/15" KMR and 11.5" barrel/10" KMR), and assemble a third upper from like parts (9" KMR over a 10.3" DD barrel and adjustable gas block). I am not a can fan, but the release of quite a few 7" .308 Ti cans and the likelihood that we'll be able to legally hunt with them in Florida has be thinking "why not". In the case of option B I'll probably wait it out for the BFH versions of the ELW-F barrels, not because:reality but simply because:decade-gun.

it should probably also be mentioned that I consider all of this to be frivolity. As many pointed out in "the one" thread, sometimes simply having or chasing a new toy is what keeps us shooting/interested. Last year, for me, that was whooping a lot of ass with an iron-sighted gun. Since the season ended, that appeal has vanished. now I'm interested in settling on a decade gun (and it's shorter companions) and focusing on the shooting again, perhaps with some amount of new-hotness thrown in.

[JHC]

I will subscribe to this one as I have really learned a lot following your experimentation and reporting of same for years.

So the TA33 is still your pick of the litter among ACOGs? If it weren't so much heavier would you prefer a TA11 or no?

What irons did you use in your '14 season?

[rob_s]

So the TA33 is still your pick of the litter among ACOGs? If it weren't so much heavier would you prefer a TA11 or no?

I've not spent much time with the TA11. I know it's popular in 3-gun circles to some extent, but no idea why or what for. I would assume it's the FOV, which is 10" more than the TA33 at 100 yards, and can be a problem with the TA33. Which brings me to my other problem with the TA33, as much as I love it, which is that it absolutely requires regular practice for me to stay good with it. Closing the front cap at close range helps mitigate this a lot (something the TA11 can't do), but I am always slower with it if I use something else for several months before coming back to it.

hat irons did you use in your '14 season?

My iron-sighted gun was a BCM Dissipator, so fixed FSB front and I used the Troy Fixed rear because at the time it was the only same-plane fixed rear I could find. Also, it matches the other BUIS I typically use, the Troy folding. I recently bought a Diamondhead-manufactured BCM set that I really like. none of the diamond aperture nonsense, can be folded down with either aperture deployed (something the troy folding can't do), but otherwise similar to the Troy.

Going forward I'll use either the KAC sights (offset on the 16" gun) on the KAC guns, or I'm considering the Magpul MBUS PRO (I still don't like that they don't lock in the up position) because they're the only sights other than the KAC that I'm aware of that make otherwise identical 12 o'clock sights and offset sights.

[JHC]

I've not spent much time with the TA11. I know it's popular in 3-gun circles to some extent, but no idea why or what for. I would assume it's the FOV, which is 10" more than the TA33 at 100 yards, and can be a problem with the TA33. Which brings me to my other problem with the TA33, as much as I love it, which is that it absolutely requires regular practice for me to stay good with it. Closing the front cap at close range helps mitigate this a lot (something the TA11 can't do), but I am always slower with it if I use something else for several months before coming back to it.


My iron-sighted gun was a BCM Dissipator, so fixed FSB front and I used the Troy Fixed rear because at the time it was the only same-plane fixed rear I could find. Also, it matches the other BUIS I typically use, the Troy folding. I recently bought a Diamondhead-manufactured BCM set that I really like. none of the diamond aperture nonsense, can be folded down with either aperture deployed (something the troy folding can't do), but otherwise similar to the Troy.

Going forward I'll use either the KAC sights (offset on the 16" gun) on the KAC guns, or I'm considering the Magpul MBUS PRO (I still don't like that they don't lock in the up position) because they're the only sights other than the KAC that I'm aware of that make otherwise identical 12 o'clock sights and offset sights.

The Troy looks like my speed. I used to have a DD fixed rear; not sure what became of it. It must have migrated out of the house with one of my son's gear. But I'm just using a Magpul rear flip on my LW carbine (no optic) and I've been meaning to replace it with a fixed.

One of my son's has a TA33 I've used quite a bit. I like it a lot but have also shot a bit with a couple of a friends TA11s and I really dig those but they are heavy and expensive. For all the strong arguments for a low powered variable; and I've shot a good bit with TA24, a Leu "safari" 1-6 with heavy duplex, Vortex's 1-4 and my Nikon 1-4 and for my uses they rarely get used at anything but 2x (woods hunting). So . . .

I'm a "lazy lame" (old gunkid epithet) and like BDC just fine and got hits with it the few times I used it.

[BWT]

I'm on my lunch break (and on a smart phone so forgive typos, etc.) but something I'll be checking out soon is the A5 VLTOR system on a new lower.

A ton of very qualified individuals (and government testing) show some awesome results. I'm thinking for standardization of springs across all guns, longer spring service life (IIRC), performance improvement reports, reliability reports. It seems that would be worth investigating.

The endorsement by many made me try one for an additional $40 on a Sionics complete lower. Search this sub forum I believe there was a thread here.

[rob_s]

The A5 is something I'm not opposed to, but seeing as I have one sitting here...

It, much like the mid-length gas system on 16" guns and hammer-forged barrels, is something I haven't been able to quantify as "better". Whether from my own use or with any sort of testing/reporting that I believe. That doesn't mean I won't be using any/all of that technology in the next decade gun, it just means I'm not sold but may be willing to err on the side of "trust" while I try to "verify".

However, if I go with the SR15 option, I don't think I'll be engaging in that level of fiddle-F.
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread....SR-15-problems

[BWT]

The A5 is something I'm not opposed to, but seeing as I have one sitting here...

It, much like the mid-length gas system on 16" guns and hammer-forged barrels, is something I haven't been able to quantify as "better". Whether from my own use or with any sort of testing/reporting that I believe. That doesn't mean I won't be using any/all of that technology in the next decade gun, it just means I'm not sold but may be willing to err on the side of "trust" while I try to "verify".

However, if I go with the SR15 option, I don't think I'll be engaging in that level of fiddle-F.
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread....SR-15-problems

Understandable, I'm kind of testing it myself for less than half normal cost.

I did think about after posting, the longer than mid length gas tube (IIRC) on the SR15's may under gas the standard buffer (5.2 oz, IIRC).

KAC did respond accordingly back in the day. The guns were optimized for 5.56mm (which seems to be a factor with that user using .223 Rem).

With the new models; I don't know about their port sizes, gas tube lengths, etc. Maybe Kevin B. Or Failure2Stop can weigh in.

I think if you're running an SR-15E3; you can get by without an A5. Atleast from a gun handling/recoil management stance. However, wasn't there also improved spring life? Also, if you build a 10.5" it might smooth things out and lengthen the dwell time similarly to a slightly longer barrel.

IIRC, (lots of recalling in this post) Failure2Stop was one of the ones who runs A5 and advocates them, FWIW.

I'll touch base on this later.

[Andy T]

Rob,
Do you take functionality with steel case ammo into consideration when choosing a rifle? I primarily shoot steel case (whatever brand I can get for cheap) and all of my BCM uppers function fine with it, assuming they are properly lubricated/chambers cleaned.
However, I remember reading that KAC uppers are more sensitive to ammo? (Perhaps its hearsay). This would be a concern to me.
Also, if you large pin Colt lowers are pre-ban, they are worth a bit more in AWB states.

[Vinh]

I say go with the multiple SR15s. I could definitely be content with two MOD0s, but I didn't have the money to buy a second while they were still in production. If you've found a configuration that you like and can live with, jump on it before they change it again.

[rob_s]

Rob,
Do you take functionality with steel case ammo into consideration when choosing a rifle? I primarily shoot steel case (whatever brand I can get for cheap) and all of my BCM uppers function fine with it, assuming they are properly lubricated/chambers cleaned.
However, I remember reading that KAC uppers are more sensitive to ammo? (Perhaps its hearsay). This would be a concern to me.
Also, if you large pin Colt lowers are pre-ban, they are worth a bit more in AWB states.

I do and I don't.

I have been a major proponent and user of steel-cased ammo for a long time. I have had little issue with it other than the 75 grain Wolf I over-bought on that causes issues in some guns.

I also believe that KAC may have made changes to the SR15 several years ago to address the issue of under-powered ammo on the commercial market, which I personally think was a mistake.

My plan in all of this is to also settle on a specific ammo (considering Freedom now) and buying upwards of 10k rounds provided an initial purchase functions in the final gun(s).