Back into the 1911s

[Tuesday]

Sounds like what I understand to be a more conventional "modern Iso" but describes the Weaver as well.

Back a few years ago I recall a Sevigny vid with his explanation of the elbows very high; I think Surf has described something somewhat similar. I've tried it (elbows point high outward like Dave S) with zero success but that was fartin' around trying to track with video explanations. I do not feel my performance sucks enough to not try to unlearn 40+ years of mechanics. I ain't buyin' my bananas too green.

Maybe we're refering to different parts of the elbow. Looking at pics and vids of Dave Sevigny, it seems he keeps the pointy bits on the backs of his elbows pointed out to the sides. For iso, I'm thinking more like a volleyball bump position, with the pointy bit of the elbow rotated down or down and in forcefully, though I'm not really thinking about any particular way of organizing your feet and hands, but rather what to do with your arms and legs after you take your stance, whether it's Weaver or iso or the C.A.R. sillyness.

And I'm not saying it's the best posture for shooting, just that if you want to involve the upper body muscles, this might be a better way to do it than squeezing your hands together.

[tomr]

Just didn't get happy with the challenger to the title, so back to the 1911.





Carbon barrel, carbon trigger, 20lpi on the front, more details and range trip to follow shortly.

Yea but. Bills back into 1911s.......

[JAD]

In re my post about slim groups working better for some with regard to control and trigger manipulation and gun indexing:

Only those with smaller hands or no? I ask because 1911s with slim groups tend to feel a bit more square and I recall JHC's comment A while back about how the square shape of the HK USP in Dexter quite well for him even though it didn't "feel" that great.

I don't know. I do have small hands and vastly prefer slim grips. I have noticed that most good shooters (sorry Todd) have really big hands and I figure if I can make the gun smaller it's probably better for me.

Incidentally, I don't checker my 1911s and hi powers, I stipple them. Bill tells me that's why we can't be friends.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

There are some cool videos by the CoC guys that show serious powerlifters trying to close high resistance grippers.

Personally experience: when I was deadlifting a paltry 250, I could close a #2 CoC. But I want also training the CoC on the reg.

Really insignificant update that is unlikely to interest anyone: I noticed grip trainers in increments up to 150lb in my gym yesterday. I can snap a 150 pounder closed with either hand with no difficulty at all. I think my high-100s estimate is probably close to accurate. I think I could do a 195. I have no soreness in my forearms from the 150. Today I did 50 chinups on a 2" bar...if the grip thing had overworked my forearms, I'd know it.

I do a lot of work with 2" bars, though, and I now that I think about it, my strength coach has always had grip strength for grappling purposes as part of my program.

[dbateman]

That was in the context of SLG's description of a four day pistol course firing 1000 rounds each day; and how one would love their 20 LPI checkering not that much after such a gauntlet.

Checkering on a new pistol is sharp.

You wouldn't front up to a marathon with a pair of shoes you hadn't broken in.

I like checkering and don't really find it hard on my hands. That being said I am a diesel mechanic so I work with my hands all day and I'm in the gym 5 days a week.

[SLG]

Checkering on a new pistol is sharp.

You wouldn't front up to a marathon with a pair of shoes you hadn't broken in.

I like checkering and don't really find it hard on my hands. That being said I am a diesel mechanic so I work with my hands all day and I'm in the gym 5 days a week.

I go through 3-4 pairs of sneakers in a year. 6 years of shooting my checkered 1911's, none of them seem any softer than the day I got them. The world is full of tough guys. I know quite a few myself. Not all of them (none?) handle a "broken in" gun's checkering any better. They all live in the gym and shoot a lot, but their hands still don't handle 205 power factor recoil well with checkering. As with everything, there are exceptions like dbateman. Outside of competition circles though, I have not met anyone like that personally. Professional gunfighters tend to be pretty tough. Checkering still breaks them down if they're not wearing gloves. For people who genuinely have saddle leather hands, I imagine its not so much of an issue.

[dbateman]

I go through 3-4 pairs of sneakers in a year. 6 years of shooting my checkered 1911's, none of them seem any softer than the day I got them. The world is full of tough guys. I know quite a few myself. Not all of them (none?) handle a "broken in" gun's checkering any better. They all live in the gym and shoot a lot, but their hands still don't handle 205 power factor recoil well with checkering. As with everything, there are exceptions like dbateman. Outside of competition circles though, I have not met anyone like that personally. Professional gunfighters tend to be pretty tough. Checkering still breaks them down if they're not wearing gloves. For people who genuinely have saddle leather hands, I imagine its not so much of an issue.

Normal use of a pistol will dull checkering. Unless you have a chromed frame or some other hardwearing finish.
I don't see 1000 rounds a day as an unusually high number of rounds to be fired during times of intense training.
Don't get me wrong after shooting 1000 or so rounds I've had enough shooting for the day, but it's training it's not about fun it's about getting better.
I do wear skin off my hands usually in the web of my hand.



I don't think I am the exception to the rule. I'm quite sure I don't know anything no one else knows.
I think it may have something to do with the way I grip my pistol ? I read your post on your grip and how you crush your pistol as well as bringing your pecs into your firing grip. I appreciate what you have written and I'm still thinking about that, to me it sounds like I would fatigue quickly especially when shooting long strings of fire.
Am I interpreting a crush grip wrong ?

For me my grip is pretty much front and rear pressure and a slight amount of side pressure from my non firing to equal to the side pressure being applied by my firing hand.
Otherwise my gun wont track straight and return to point of aim. I can see my sights during recoil and find I'm standing around kicking rocks waiting for them to come back.
I don't muscle my gun just hold it well enough to see whats going on. At least thats where it is at the moment but I am sure it will change.

That being said I did give someone a shot of one of my pistols the other day and they were winging about the checkering and serrations.
It stuck out to me because one of their complaints was the trigger (all my triggers are serrated) his compliant was it was hurting his trigger finger because he was sliding his finger across the trigger.

[ToddG]

I can understand that regularly shooting a high volume through a checkered gun will toughen one's hands. I do not understand how skin contact with steel checkering will wear away the steel in any perceptible way.

[Tamara]

It doesn't have a ton* of ammo through it, but despite years of carry, I'm sure the checkering on my Pro is pretty much about as sharp as it was the day I bought it fourteen years ago.


*Maybe a quarter ton?

[Maple Syrup Actual]

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=92753

Here is an interesting discussion on the mechanisms of wear by soft materials on steel. The initial question is about cotton processing equipment components getting worn out.

The discussion leads me to suspect that checkering would dull extremely slowly through regular use. However...there would probably be some chemical interaction between the steel checkering and the sweaty, acidic hand with which it was in contact, and that corrosive effect would be most noticeable on the tips of the pyramids.

I think there is probably also the question of the shear strength of the very tips of the pyramids, vs the shear strength of the valleys on the skin of your hand. That might tend to accelerate the wear on the sharpest points. I imagine Dr. Riehl might have some insight into this mechanism?

So minimal wear, but perceptible? Potentially, IMO. You can sure strop a razor with leather. Checkering wear would be a lot slower but I don't think it would necessarily be impossible or even imperceptible.


Genuine experts may well prove me wrong but those are my thoughts.