Dunno exactly WHEN he began. I AM reasonably certain he was the first to put one on a Glock 19 for actual carrying, which is what Hambo referenced.Originally Posted by ToddG
Bonnie Harmon of the Army MTU actually "pioneered" the use of RDS on competition pistols, when he surprised everybody (except his team mates) by showing up at Camp Perry with one on his wad gun in 1968.
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[QUOTE=Hambo;289786LSP972, I don't know who the first guy to bolt an optic to a pistol was, but it was some IPSC innovator. [/QUOTE]
Ah, no. See my post above.
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It's much IDPA's own fault. Their original self-described role was "the REAL Defensive Shooting Sport" (or maybe even tactical not defensive, I'm too lazy to go into the dungeon and try to find one of my old school rulebooks). The founders were very purposeful in trying to draw in the CCW crowd and the folks -- like me -- who saw IPSC of the day as being little more than running around hosing a billion targets. There are all sorts of "tactics" rules like how to use cover, what types of reloads are allowed, etc. that have driven many people to redefine what is correct.
I remember talking to Ken as the game was just spinning up and he was already lamenting that "IDPA will do for the tactical reload what IPSC did for the speed reload." And sure enough, for many people the tac load was the only right thing to do for many, many years after that.
I'm not slamming IDPA for trying to add a slice of realism into how people shoot -- we've had a lot of success at our local KSTG matches teaching people to avoid crowding cover with our rules -- but at the competitor level you just cannot start to compare what worked best in stage planning with what would work best if those cardboard and steel targets could walk around corners and start blasting you en masse.
I know numerous shooters who dumped IDPA because they got tired of expending the money and effort to go to matches that were sold out but didn't have enough shooters in the classifications for the winner to get a bump. Twice, I have personally volunteered to switch divisions at a sold out sanctioned match to try to get the numbers to where someone could earn a match bump. The shooters involved either went USPSA or 3-gun.
Having 18 EX shooters split among three divisions over things as simple as stippling or 1911 versus Glock or the old ridiculous rule putting XDs in ESP doesn't make much sense. If the classification system is valid, put all 18 of them head to head.
There used to be three sold out sanctioned IDPA matches per year within 1.5 hours of my house. Now all three are gone. The only remaining IDPA club with the facilities big enough to host a sanctioned match steadfastly declines to do so.
Edit to add:
I just remembered a sold out sanctioned match where none of the three divisions had enough SS level shooters for the winner to get a bump, and none of the EX shooters earned one either.
Last edited by jlw; 01-28-2015 at 09:33 AM.
I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.
I am always interested in a match bump. But that is not the only reason I go to a sanctioned match. I go to compete with the best in my class, to talk guns, ammo, and technique, to challenge myself in a more difficult match, gain valuable experience and to have some fun. That all being said, I agree with you that the classes tend to get thinned-out when you add another semi-auto division. I personally advocated for combining SSP and ESP, having BUG as a standard Division and adding Optics/Lasers. And, the gun rule should be this: If it makes weight and fits the box, it should be legal to shoot in IDPA. But, like everything involving large numbers of people, there will be compromises made. I accept them and enjoy the sports.
Cody
That a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state;
When a shooter is dumping hundreds of dollars and copious windshield time to shoot a sanctioned match they shouldn't have to play divisional lottery. Save the intrinsic fun of competing for the local club matches.
I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.
I don't understand this unless someone is specifically trying to get a match bump. If that's the case, I've been to many matches where anything but SSP was not going to provide a match bump number of shooters in just about any class.
The "head to head" idea of compacting all the divisions into one another makes sense but is scary on a national level for a game that wants to promote stock-ish guns, etc. As soon as the first time shooter has to compete against a guy who is allowed to have stippling on his grip, it become demotivating. Sounds silly, I know, but having spoken to plenty of IDPA competitors at all levels of matches from local to national it's a very common concern.
FWIW, I learned a lot of this while actively advocating the merger of SSP and ESP in IDPA.
The guy had the goal of making Master.
I just don't see why stippling and grip tape are viewed differently as far as divisions are concerned. It's not like we're talking open versus production differences.
I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.
He could find a classifier...
Dude, I'm with you. There are a lot of weird rules in every shooting sport. I can shoot USPSA L10 from aiwb, but can't shoot Single Stack with my single stack pistol if I want to AIWB. Though at least USPSA lets me carry aiwb somewhere.I just don't see why stippling and grip tape are viewed differently as far as divisions are concerned. It's not like we're talking open versus production differences.
He could find a classifier...
He actually made MA in another division.
Dude, I'm with you. There are a lot of weird rules in every shooting sport. I can shoot USPSA L10 from aiwb, but can't shoot Single Stack with my single stack pistol if I want to AIWB. Though at least USPSA lets me carry aiwb somewhere.
I've never even been on a range at the same time that a USPSA match was taking place. I'm only minimally familiar with their rules.
Give me GSSF. I don't have to run.
I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.
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