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Thread: Unhealthy Obsession? Pistol Accuracy...

  1. #1
    S.L.O.W. ASH556's Avatar
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    Unhealthy Obsession? Pistol Accuracy...

    I understand that most people in the world think of pistols, especially CCW pistols as close range (7yds) weapons. Most everyone I talked to about 25yd pistol shooting when I started working on it was like "why?" That said, I see valid reasons for it. I understand that when you're arming an entire police force, most of whom barely have enough skill to pass qualification, a little accuracy here or there doesn't matter so much. The user doesn't have the skill to take advantage of it.

    However (and at the risk of sounding arrogant) I think I'm to the point in pistol skill where hardware does begin to make a difference. Early in 2014 I settled into shooting Gen 4 Glock 17's and have really learned and grown a lot with them in this past year. I think it's for sure a solid platform and "accurate enough" for most things. However, let's say I wanted to go full-in on the accuracy side while still maintaining a "duty acceptable" durability, mags, holsters, parts, sights proposition. I'd also prefer to stay in 9mm. Where do you look? The only things on my radar at this point are a Sig P226SAO or maybe a CZ75. Or, am I chasing a ghost and should just stick with the Glocks? Maybe upgrade the barrels in my Glocks? I have one with a KKM and it shoots noticeably better than the factory barrel. At this point, though, ergonomics and trigger are something I have to work extra hard on with the Glock. I just wonder if I could do better with another platform.

    KKM-barreled gun, minus connector, Dawson Adjustable sights:


    Factory-barreled gun, minus connector, TCAP sights:
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    Semper Paratus certified AR15 armorer

  2. #2
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    I see nothing wrong with the excellent groups you are now shooting with the G17. Having said that have you fired the HK VP9 or the Sig P320 at 25 yards for a comparison.

  3. #3
    S.L.O.W. ASH556's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBP55 View Post
    I see nothing wrong with the excellent groups you are now shooting with the G17. Having said that have you fired the HK VP9 or the Sig P320 at 25 yards for a comparison.
    I have not shot either of them. Working at a shop, I've handled and dry-fired them. I don't particularly love the triggers on them. I think we have a VP-9 in the rental case. Maybe I'll try it out Friday.
    Food Court Apprentice
    Semper Paratus certified AR15 armorer

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by ASH556 View Post
    At this point, though, ergonomics and trigger are something I have to work extra hard on with the Glock. I just wonder if I could do better with another platform.
    If you want smaller groups, then you’ll have to work extra hard on those things no matter what pistol you choose.

    I’m one of the first to go off the deep end on pistol accuracy, but I find that the law of diminishing returns will start to kick in once you get much farther than where you are right now.

    Last summer, I tested several pistols (CZ, Browning, SIG, HK, Beretta, FNH) looking for something better than a Gen 3 G17 with a Wilson barrel. Each pistol I tested was slightly better than my G17 in one or two respects, but none equaled it in all respects. The main thing I learned is that the G17 sits in a remarkably sweet spot when you consider the entire spectrum of handgun ownership (logistics, ease of use, maintenance, size, weight, accuracy, etc.). Right now, I shoot pretty good groups at 25 and 50 yards, so I’ve chosen to stick with my G17s and focus more on tactics, shooting well at speed, etc.

    If you want more accuracy, try a P30 but be prepared to compromise on some things…


    Okie John

  5. #5
    Member JHC's Avatar
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    IMO shift emphasis to other attributes. Can you shoot 90 on the 99 Drill or smoke the 5x5 sub 17 sec?
    “Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais

  6. #6
    I would keep the g 17s and if you want to experiment with a fitted bar-sto then go ahead. I think your best bet on accuracy is to handload and work up a particular load that shoots well in your gun.

    If you really want to go down the accuracy road build from a platform that would let you take the rabbit hole as far as you want to go.

  7. #7
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    I found that for me, I can shoot my Beretta 92 Compact more accurately than my gen 3 Glock 34 when taking my time, but when I speed things up, I throw shots high. As opposed to my Glock, where I can speed up and keep the shots in a group. I've already mostly narrowed it down to anticipation, so It'll be a slight transition, but I think the stock SA trigger on Berettas, Sigs, and CZ's is equal or better than even some of the best striker fired triggers out there.

    With a tuned DA/SA gun, it doesn't even come close. Yes, they're more for games than anything else, but a well tuned CZ will blow the socks off of just about any striker fired pistol out there in terms of triggers.

    Whether or not you prefer a Beretta (they can be a bit chunky), they have a reputation for stellar accuracy and even one that has been lightly modded can be very easy to shoot and very accurate. I keep trying to get myself to buy a 13 lb hammer spring, but the D-spring shoots so well as is, I currently don't feel rushed.

    Come over to the Dark Side: We have awesome guns!

  8. #8
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    You don't mention your ammo. Lately I've been reloading with accuracy as a goal. I've heard Atlanta Arms has some good stuff if you don't reload. I've tried a lot of bullets lately and the Hornady HAP is far and away the best.

  9. #9
    We are diminished
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    I'm on the opposite side of the fence: I think people make too little of a pistol/ammo's inherent accuracy. No matter how good you are, your pistol and ammo can only add to the dispersion of your shots. The less they add, the more good hits you'll achieve all else being equal.

    That's why I think there's a big difference between a 4"@25 gun and a 2"@25 gun. Will it matter under most practical circumstances? No. But since you can never shoot better than the gun & ammo's inherent level of accuracy, why sacrifice when you don't have to?

  10. #10
    Site Supporter LtDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1986s4 View Post
    You don't mention your ammo. Lately I've been reloading with accuracy as a goal. I've heard Atlanta Arms has some good stuff if you don't reload. I've tried a lot of bullets lately and the Hornady HAP is far and away the best.
    HAPs are indeed excellent. Getting to sub 2" groups reliably can take a lot of experimentation. In one G34 it took over 40 loads to find a couple that would reliably hit 1.5" or better off the bench. I've found with multiple 9mm guns that I have the best luck accuracy wise with either a fast 115 or a moderate speed 147 grain bullet. Powders that have yielded the best results for me are WSF, Power Pistol, AA#5, Bullseye and AutoComp. I have pretty much standardized on Winchester small pistol primers. You will know you have an accurate pistol when it will do sub 2" with a variety of different loads. Each gun is a rule unto itself as to what it likes. I have a Beretta 92 Type M that put 6 rounds of Win Value Pack 115 ball into 3/4".
    The first indication a bad guy should have that I'm dangerous is when his
    disembodied soul is looking down at his own corpse wondering what happened.

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