Not that the Sim rounds can't also get to be a pain. I once caught a hot round from a carbine that penetrated my BDU sleeve and was deep enough into my left tricep that a bud had to pull it out with a set of needlenose pliers.
I think some people like the UTM simply due to the F up the OPFOR factor.
You could be correct. As long as the department understand the ranges that they can be used at and avoid hurting officers unnecessarily there really isn't a problem. I guess safety is just one problem of poorly constructed FoF training. As you suggest, if you push the minimum usable range of a round, be it UTM or Sim there are going to be problems. And UTM rifle ammo is particularly difficult to use close in.Originally Posted by Chuck Haggard
Although I do have many more sore knuckles from UTM than Sims. Those small rounds just tend to find their way between the panels of the gloves and cracks in the torso padding. Not only are they higher velocity but they sometimes strike with the metal base first instead of the marker portion of the round.
Never-the-less what a wonderful way to teach and what a great job to have. It also is quite a laboratory to learn what works and what doesn't for the instructor too. I was always amazed at instructors just blasting away at officers instead of giving the required stimulus (good teaching) and then watching how they all reacted to the particular stimulus in a given technique (good learning). I still believe that I learned more from being a bad guy than I ever did at officer training.
What you do right before you know you're going to be in a use of force incident, often determines the outcome of that use of force.
Seeing a tactic used from both the good guy and the bad guy perspective is VERY educational.
FWIW, I've run both Sims FX and Speed Force-on-Force through carbines. I recently picked up several of the KWA PTR's and will never use anything else unless I need marking. They are a 100% stand in for a real gun and are accurate out to 35 yards.
- It's not the odds, it's the stakes.
- If you aren't dry practicing every week, you're not serious.....
- "Tache-Psyche Effect - a polite way of saying 'You suck.' " - GG
That info seems to agree with what I've seen, that the need for a reload in a fight is extremely rare and the need for a fast reload is a rarity among the rare. I tend to advocate it (reload) as a malfunction response for the non-dedicated simply because it is an action that is already trained into the folks and is probably one of the more common manipulations they do on a regular basis, thus they get regular reinforcement of the skill. Certainly not the ideal solution, just a way to address what are sadly some of the realities of the business.
"PLAN FOR YOUR TRAINING TO BE A REFLECTION OF REAL LIFE INSTEAD OF HOPING THAT REAL LIFE WILL BE A REFLECTION OF YOUR TRAINING!"
Agreed and I learn more about the efficacy of any tactic and wring things out by being the bad guy. Over the years I have taken more SIMS rounds than probably all of our other instructors combined, but that is because I like to place myself square within the crosshairs so to speak. Some think I am just sadistic and like to get hit and like to shoot others, but besides that, it really is IMO the best way to try to find chinks in the armor. In addition it also makes you a much better tactician on the giving end of things. Your "rolodex" gets so filled by the "what ifs" from the bad guys perspective it is invaluable. I often take students who may have issues in grasping something and let them view things from the perps view. You will often see that proverbial light bulb go on much sooner.
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