What do you call this position?

[GJM]

I think the "other side" would love an incident now, where a police officer shot an unarmed protestor, intentionally or by accident.

What model pistol is that in the photo?

[JDM]

I'm positive they would.

Some archaic, hard to shoot, old fashioned DA/SA mess.

[SLG]

I can elaborate, but only with situation specific examples, not with generally applicable rules.

I know that's not what you're after, but pointing guns at people is often more grey than anyone would like it to be.

IME, the only people who don't think its grey have never done it. "Training" means very little in and of itself. GOOD training strives to prepare you for reality, but again, IME, never quite gets all the way there.

[TCinVA]

I assume police are muzzling people for good reasons, and not ignorance, so I am interested to hearing more about people you are justified in muzzling,

Given that the officer's weapon is out because...again...his partner had just been attacked after having been identified as police officers, that the officer was facing a significant disparity of force by being outnumbered by a bunch of people who were a couple of steps away after said attack and who were interfering with a legit arrest, I'd say the officer wouldn't have much trouble stating a pretty compelling case for pointing his gun at the people who had he and his partner (who was still struggling with the guy who hit him) surrounded.

Pointing a gun at somebody is a use of force...and we've had numerous discussions about the utility of the preemptive draw and the tendency of staring down a muzzle to make those who have displayed hostile intent remember their mortality.

This thread is, frankly, clownshoes.

[JDM]

IME, the only people who don't think its grey have never done it. "Training" means very little in and of itself. GOOD training strives to prepare you for reality, but again, IME, never quite gets all the way there.

Violently agree.

Violently, violently agree.

[Dagga Boy]

Name it after this guy. I actually have seen a lot of the inboard flat cant high ready from people who are fast sport shooters doing tactical like things. I like a hard, pretty Weaverish low ready in incidents like that for myself, but I have been informed that I am old and that is antiquated.

[GJM]

Given that the officer's weapon is out because...again...his partner had just been attacked after having been identified as police officers, that the officer was facing a significant disparity of force by being outnumbered by a bunch of people who were a couple of steps away after said attack and who were interfering with a legit arrest, I'd say the officer wouldn't have much trouble stating a pretty compelling case for pointing his gun at the people who had he and his partner (who was still struggling with the guy who hit him) surrounded.

Pointing a gun at somebody is a use of force...and we've had numerous discussions about the utility of the preemptive draw and the tendency of staring down a muzzle to make those who have displayed hostile intent remember their mortality.

This thread is, frankly, clownshoes.

In today's environment, with the words I hear from our President and Attorney General, if that police officer shot an unarmed protester intentionally or by accident, I suspect he would be hung out to dry, his career ruined, and have a good chance of criminal prosecution. If his muzzle was depressed, I doubt it would even be newsworthy. I would want to know that muzzling a crowd did a lot more for me than a depressed muzzle, for me to take that risk. Regardless of the facts, I bet a bunch of people will be making statements as to being muzzled, asserting it was uncalled for, and submitting this photo as "evidence."

A few seconds on Google turned up this, and gives insight into how this will be spun:


http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2014...akland-protest

[GJM]

Name it after this guy. I actually have seen a lot of the inboard flat cant high ready from people who are fast sport shooters doing tactical like things. I like a hard, pretty Weaverish low ready in incidents like that for myself, but I have been informed that I am old and that is antiquated.

Isn't Todd running as opposed to demoing a ready position?

[Maple Syrup Actual]

Isn't the guy in the picture dealing with a really f-ing sketchy, dangerous situation while surrounded by a potentially dangerous crowd, as opposed to demoing a ready position?



Mid-grabbing someone I'm trying to protect with my other half-strong non-support hand half full and possibly having to make a decision about whether someone else is a credible threat, if my form gets a little cockeyed...I'm okay with that. Was this guy's non-other-side-weak hand in the middle of moving from one position to another when the flash went off? Was he pulling back because he was afraid of a possible gun grab because he'd realized he'd gotten his gun too far out and he didn't retract perfectly into a compressed #3 because there was a ton of shit going on?

It's what it's. I think I'm pretty disciplined and I've probably been punched in the face a lot more times than most people here, but when a gigantic russian dude grabbed me and went north-south on me...my sim-muzzle discipline went to hell and I was flagging the hell out of everyone trying to put rounds in Vladimir. Is this guy currently getting his ass kicked? No, but he's got enough on his plate that I'm not super hot on critiquing his form.

[TCinVA]

If his muzzle was depressed, I doubt it would even be newsworthy.

Sure...because the press and social media lynch mobs are full of people who are inclined to look more favorably on that officer's piece being whipped out and pointed at the ground seeing how reasonable they've been about everything else.

The man was in a no win situation full stop. At the moment he was probably more concerned with avoiding death or crippling injury than Eric Holder's approval. As it is he managed to not get killed without killing anybody. People bitching about it are the ones who bitch any time the cop doesn't end up losing the fight. Such is life.

PF should be filled with people who actually have enough training and/or experience to understand UOF better than the hashtagging dipshits insisting on public lynchings anytime they don't like the outcome.