What do you call this position?

[Lester Polfus]

I've been trying to think of a way to say this without some people thinking I'm being a jerk, which usually means somebody will think I'm a jerk no matter how hard I try.

There are a tremendous number of armed citizens these days like many of the folks on this board, who have taken up the practice of the gun as a combination hobby/martial art/life preservaiton skills. They seek out training in the gun, mostly in courses that focus solely shooting and manipulating the firearm. The single task at hand during those blocks of instruciton is manipulating the gun. As a byproduct of this people tend to zero in on details like grip, stance, minutia of equipment and etc. These things ARE important BUT....

This is very different than being a cop, or even an armed citizen in a violent, or potentially violent encounter. There, instead of focusing on a single thing manipulating the weapon, you are dealing with dozens of things at once, like maintianing a position of advantage, identifying threats in ambiguous situations, and making sound decisions very quickly.

So folks with experience and training in the latter are going to react to viewing these pictures very differently than folks with experience and training solely in the former.

When I look at those pictures, there are a dozen things that jump out at me as being tactically significant. The manner in which he's holding the gun is on the list, but it's way down there.

Does that make sense?

[StraitR]

South Narc talks about the utility of profanity when dealing with career criminals, as it is the language that they understand and take seriously.

I wonder if some undercover guys may feel they are taken more seriously by people who are used to being surrounded by violent felons, when they emulate the body language of violent felons.

Kind of the opposite of PF.com. On this forum, "gangster" form is scoffed at because it indicates a lack of seriousness, or skill. Maybe on the Streets of Oakland, PF.com form is scoffed at because it indicates a lack of seriousness, or willingness(desire) to kill somebody. Or am I way off base?

That's a keen observation. I'm interested to see the responses by our friends in blue, and whether its used in uniformed, UC/plainclothes, or both. Might be worth a thread of it's own in the LE section.

[DocGKR]

frozentundra--using appropriate demeanor and language for the intended audience sometimes does help influence situations to a successful resolution.

[tanner]

I was assuming, maybe incorrectly, that he was using the weapon as a tool of influence rather than a tool of deadly force. I could only assume that if he was targeting a specific threat and preparing to actually shoot the grip/stance would have been different, maybe not....

I have seen instances of both police and legal gun owners using guns to "scare" people. Either to encourage the bad guy to leave or comply with commands. Sometimes it works, and other times not so much.

Is it an effective tactic? Perhaps, but if you try it you had better have a plan in place in case it doesn't.

[Chuck Haggard]

28 years now and I have yet to not have someone take me seriously when I point a gun at them. Having a bit of command presence kinda helps.


Looking into this one a bit more since I first posted in this thread, and doing a bit of profiling on human behavior/training/gun handling/how people act under stress, I see zero to little issue with what I am looking at in the various pics coming out of this incident.

[HopetonBrown]

Trigger finger could be better in this one.

[Chuck Haggard]

It could be, but lots of people aren't trained to a high enough standard IMHO, nor have they analysed the problem in depth.

IMHO Col. Cooper didn't go far enough when he came up with Rule 3

[TCinVA]

My question is, in all seriousness, what would prevent him from being shot by a legally armed citizen, granted this is CA and there probably are not any in the crowd, but still should he have a badge in hand instead of the baton?

Both men had identified themselves as police officers prior to that photo being taken. They were, in fact, under threat precisely because they had been made as cops and were attacked...so somebody shooting at the officer there would have a rather difficult time claiming self defense.

[TCinVA]

The thing that strikes me the most about these images is how unconcerned the spectators seem about the deadly weapon in their midst. Nobody seems impressed.

Because the person holding it is a police officer. A police officer obviously trying hard not to kill people.

[GJM]

3. The original thread starter and a few of the responses shows the disparity of knowledge and experience between those who have trained a little, or a lot for violent encounters and those who are still recovering from being in one too many - and sometimes one too many is "one".

The picture is national news, and that is why I posted it.

I could have titled the thread any number of things:

1) hey, is that a S&W third gen pistol?

2) why the f is that guy pointing his muzzle at people he isn't in the process of shooting?

3) why would anyone cant their pistol that much, since it ain't going to help recoil control?

4) is that the high register we like so much on PF?

Instead, I titled the thread "what do you call this position," which seemed pretty innocuous, and made ZERO comments. If posting a picture that is national news shows my lack of knowledge, than I guess I plead guilty.