Reconciliing Multiple Holster Positions

[JodyH]

but that thought process does not seem to out think my reactive process on where the weapon is located. By this I mean that by the time the hair on the back of my neck is raised to the time that I have decided that the weapon needs to come out, I have already processed where it is being carried and drawn from and I have not been able to locate a measurable difference in reaction. Of course some modes of carry are faster than others, but I don't feel the process has slowed down to the point where I consciously need to think "OK, my gun needs to be drawn", to "where am I carrying it", to "ok, I got it out". The "where am I carrying it" process seems automatic or determined concurrently in my threat assessment phase, so by the time I actually draw the weapon, I already know where to draw from. If this makes sense.

Makes sense and I agree completely.

[JustOneGun]

For those that are 100% AIWB, do you never have dress situations that would result in an open cover garment? Staying buttoned up or using a vest are options there of course.

Do you ever need deep concealment like Smart Carry and if you do use that, are you drilling that with equivalent reps?

GJMs remarks about the nuances of the cover garment don't get near the play of holster type but that can really influence a clean draw from either.

Tom Given's reasoning for all IWB 3:30 is pretty strong. That'll work for just about every dress situation.

Does it rise to derp if one can ONLY carry one way and can ONLY wear one style of cover garment that is made on just ONE type of fabric?

I use a tuck holster. Works well for me. I can actually carry a pistol with less printing that way. I am experimenting with tucking all my shirts from t-shirt to dress shirt. I found that in winter I can just leave the jacket or coat unzipped and when I pull the shirt free the coat just spreads out of the way. I still need to do a lot more experimenting though. An odd thing about tucking the shirt is that grasping the shirt seems to be consistent no matter the type of shirt.

Only drawback on tucking is the shirt is not bloused military style but left college professor frumpy.

[JustOneGun]

Not missing the point at all.
Reactionary draw speed is not the same as draw speed.

Yes, armed defenders.
Brazilian on and off duty cop videos are really interesting to watch.
In Brazil you have a much more violent criminal culture and they bad guys often start the robbery off by shooting at their intended victims, absolute worst case scenario of reactionary shooting and the off duty cops rack up the dead criminals.
Most of the off duty cops are also carrying AIWB and when you see their on duty gear it's pretty much always Level 3 drop leg.
Worst case scenario reactionary shooting combined with carrying in very different holster types and locations and it doesn't seem to make that much difference in the outcome of the shootings.

There is training for when we will say, that's the mental trigger now draw and shoot. Once that mental decision happens I'm not sure how being slower at a draw is a good thing or okay or doesn't matter. Can you elaborate one your idea?

I understand that we also should be training for when to draw but feel they are two separate training needs. One doesn't negate the other.

[SLG]

Those Brazilian videos that JodyH mentioned are very interesting, but I have yet to see a gun in one of them:-)

In all seriousness, they are an excellent resource, imho.

[Trajan]

Two weeks ago in IDPA I went for an AIWB reload that wasn't there. I kept the mags in my back left pocket. When I used to carry a reload, it was always AIWB. Now a days I carry a clinch pick there. I did not attempt to put the CP in my Glock.

EDIT: It's an IDPA match that generally follows the IDPA rules, but allows AIWB (of which I'm the only one who does it).

[JodyH]

There is training for when we will say, that's the mental trigger now draw and shoot. Once that mental decision happens I'm not sure how being slower at a draw is a good thing or okay or doesn't matter. Can you elaborate one your idea?

I'm NOT talking about straight up draw speed.
Draw speed and first hit accuracy are extremely important when it comes to winning the gunfight.

What I'm talking about is pure reactionary draw speed where you're given an immediate stimulus to draw and shoot with zero pre-planning which means you're forced to be 100% on auto-pilot from the start. A situation that develops so fast that you have zero time to even think about where you're carrying your handgun.
Those just don't happen in civilian situations, law enforcement is a whole other animal where ambush shootings are a very real concern.

[Patrick Taylor]

My carry position is the 3:30/4:00 carry. Not saying this is right and I did try appendix for a while but have never changed day to day.

[MDS]

I'm NOT talking about straight up draw speed.
Draw speed and first hit accuracy are extremely important when it comes to winning the gunfight.

What I'm talking about is pure reactionary draw speed where you're given an immediate stimulus to draw and shoot with zero pre-planning which means you're forced to be 100% on auto-pilot from the start. A situation that develops so fast that you have zero time to even think about where you're carrying your handgun.
Those just don't happen in civilian situations, law enforcement is a whole other animal where ambush shootings are a very real concern.

I used to think this way, but after my own snatch-and-grab incident, and at least one video of a snatch-and-grab where an accomplice showed his gun to the victim to keep the victim from pursuing, I do think a civilian has a reasonable chance of needing to get his pistol out PDQ...

[ToddG]

I used to think this way, but after my own snatch-and-grab incident, and at least one video of a snatch-and-grab where an accomplice showed his gun to the victim to keep the victim from pursuing, I do think a civilian has a reasonable chance of needing to get his pistol out PDQ...

Agreed. People always want to talk about extremes of the spectrum: I'll never need it vs I'll always need it. It's a false dichotomy.

[JustOneGun]

I'm NOT talking about straight up draw speed.
Draw speed and first hit accuracy are extremely important when it comes to winning the gunfight.

What I'm talking about is pure reactionary draw speed where you're given an immediate stimulus to draw and shoot with zero pre-planning which means you're forced to be 100% on auto-pilot from the start. A situation that develops so fast that you have zero time to even think about where you're carrying your handgun.
Those just don't happen in civilian situations, law enforcement is a whole other animal where ambush shootings are a very real concern.

Sorry for the late reply as I was traveling. I think I totally misunderstood your first post. Sorry about that. It seems we agree.

We all think we can think about when and where the gun is going to be but it just doesn't work out that way in most instances. Even when you actually have time in real world instances our minds often override that thought process and do what is programmed. We don't actually get to decide when we have time to think about it, our mind just does it.

Edit: I just reread the post and it seems we don't agree at all. Are you saying a person can consistently draw a holster from two different places without screwing up?

I can tell you personally I can't. From time to time when my mind would go on auto pilot I would draw the phantom gun. So for me the conversation was over. As an instructor I can tell you that I've seen that happen over and over again on a square range with mild stress to a large percentage of the police population. Everyone from SWAT officers to recruits. I can't see how a life or death situation will not cause it to happen more often. I won't suggest it will happen every time but I will suggest that individual shooters are not in control of when it happens.