Reconciliing Multiple Holster Positions

[Mr_White]

The exclusive vs. nonexclusive appendix carry poll thread has prompted me to start this one.

One of the points of contention in the other thread was whether and how badly it might or might not mess a person up to have multiple positions to potentially draw from. If you do carry strong side some of the time, and appendix carry other times, how do you personally divide or try to optimize your practice? Some dry draws each time you put on a given rig? Do most of your practice with one rig - competition, duty, concealed carry/off-duty? Or do you divide it? The sub-issue of whether the effect is worse in a primary draw vs. drawing a backup gun was also raised. Etc., etc., etc.

Seemed like it might be a worthwhile sister discussion.

[45dotACP]

I personally do multiple holster positions but I don't really practice drawing an openly carried OWB at 3:00. It's seriously the easiest setup to draw from out there. That, and from a competitive standpoint, the draw isn't really a huge time factor. I find a 1.5 second draw won't kill my score if I've got a good stage plan.

From a defensive standpoint, the draw is a big deal. I practice AIWB draws probably 75% of the time compared to 3:00/4:00 but the number is gradually shrinking in favor of traditional carry. The gun I use for AIWB is a Beretta, and I have noted in my training journal that my performance is suffering from me having too many different trigger setups, so something's gotta give. The Beretta has the least money invested in it, so it loses. I'll probably be either picking up an AIWB holster for my 1911, or just sticking with a 3:00 to 4:00 IWB position (which conceals better for me).

I don't believe it's too much of a confounding factor because once a person has made the decision to draw a gun, they should know where the gun is on their belt. I know some people consider drawing to be an automatic response, but I find danger in that notion. Namely, the danger that one of my friends might try to jump scare me and end up with the muzzle end of my carry gun in his face.

[SpencerDS]

I got into a disagreement with someone over this exact issue not too long ago. Here is my take on it, I let it go at the time because I figure he is a big boy and can make his own decisions and it's only gonna give me a headache trying to convince him otherwise.

I carry one of three ways: on duty open carry or under a jacket 3 o'clock in an offset kydex holster(little to no drop), concealed 3-3:30 in an OWB JM Custom Kydex under jacket or button-up shirt, last is concealed appendix with either a JM Custom AIWB, or VG2. I really only carry appendix when I am running out alone real quick to a store or not going to get out of my car, mainly because I keep a gun in one of those holsters near my front door as a grab-n-go. If I am going out with my wife, son or both I will put on a shirt or jacket and put on my OWB holster. I practice draws primarily from the first two carry positions, because I am most likely to be carrying that way. However, I will train from AIWB 25% of the time, and usually do a practice draw or two before I step out the door. While carrying AIWB as I am looking around I also remind myself regularly that I am carrying AIWB and how I will need to draw.
I understand the people that will only carry from one position, but in the case of the individual I had the argument with, he was not carrying that day and I was. So I think the priority of having a gun was forgotten on his part. Even though he had an AR in his car.
Just my opinion, everyone has to decide for themselves.

[okie john]

One of the points of contention in the other thread was whether and how badly it might or might not mess a person up to have multiple positions to potentially draw from.

I stick to one pistol in one position. I train with 2-3 cover garments, but that's about all the flexibility I expect from my reptile brain during a mind-bending adrenalin rush. I'd rather use what limited brain power I'll have for unscrewing the tactical situation than for trying to find my pistol.


Okie John

[rob_s]

This is one of those topics that never seems to go anywhere, as those that use multiple positions have decided that it works for them, and those that don't have decided they prefer things in one spot. No amount of discussion on the internet is likely to change that.

Provided that the multi-carry person's position isn't based on the merry-go-round of guns, or that they're not carrying one way one time just 'cause the cool kids do it and another way another time because that's what's actually comfortable to him, the multi-carry guy simply has to make up his mind to practice more IMO. Twice the carry positions, twice the practice.

Personally I try to keep my competition gun as close to the location of my carry gun as I can. I don't practice enough to do it any other way.

[JHC]

I'm a 50/50 AIWB or IWB depending on dress and activity planned. But whatever carry in play that day; gets numerous "half draws" (hand to grip) THAT day when discretion allows; which is plenty.

I've done enough stuff under serious pressure I've NOT PRACTICED ONCE before the fateful moment; that was more complicated that drawing a fuckin' pistol that I'm confident I can figure this out.

[GJM]

YVK and I were discussing this tonight, and he said something that caused me to start experimenting. In other words, leave the theoretical, and start drawing the pistol from appendix and 3 o'clock.

As it turns out, I come into the appendix position with my strong hand from my hip. Essentially there is no difference with my strong hand whether appendix or hip, as I start from the hip for both draws. What makes an enormous difference is the cover garment. If it is a closed front garment, I use my support hand to clear the garment. If it is an open front garment, I use my strong hand.

My take away is the type garment and which hand is used to clear the garment is more important than the appendix or hip holster position. As long as I wear a closed front concealment garment, there is no meaningful difference between appendix and hip for me. Open front, completely different draw. My practice has been to almost exclusively use close front garments for concealment, and after this exercise I plan to continue that choice.

[45dotACP]

YVK and I were discussing this tonight, and he said something that caused me to start experimenting. In other words, leave the theoretical, and start drawing the pistol from appendix and 3 o'clock.

As it turns out, I come into the appendix position with my strong hand from my hip. Essentially there is no difference with my strong hand whether appendix or hip, as I start from the hip for both draws. What makes an enormous difference is the cover garment. If it is a closed front garment, I use my support hand to clear the garment. If it is an open front garment, I use my strong hand.

My take away is the type garment and which hand is used to clear the garment is more important than the appendix or hip holster position. As long as I wear a closed front concealment garment, there is no meaningful difference between appendix and hip for me. Open front, completely different draw. My practice has been to almost exclusively use close front garments for concealment, and after this exercise I plan to continue that choice.

Good point. I have never been able to get around the idea of shooting IDPA in a vest and then switching to IWB with an untucked T-shirt

[YVK]

If you do carry strong side some of the time, and appendix carry other times, how do you personally divide or try to optimize your practice?

First, I don't believe there is much risk of me trying to draw from a wrong location for the same reasons that TLG alluded to when he mentioned the reload and malf clearance slide work commonality nonsense.

Second, if there was a chance of that happening, it would be a lot more likely that I'd try to draw from nonexistent appendix holster in a match than from nonexistent OWB in self defense, considering a significant predominance of aiwb use for me.

Third, since I don't like leaving things to the chance, I try my best to start all my dry fire practices with OWB but finish with AIWB. In fact, my intent is to do all drlls owb, and then repeat them aiwb. Plus I set up aiwb only sessions only to keep habituating myself for AIWB as a primary position.

[David B.]

I train OWB 3 o'clock and carry IWB 3:30 (mag pouch always in the same spot). There is essentially no difference in the presentation for me except for clearing the cover garment. Most of the time it's an open front sport/suit coat. Therefore the strong hand sweeps the garment and begins the presentation of the firearm.

Personally, I prefer to train most of the time not from concealment simply because I enjoy shooting more that way. If I'm spending the money on guns and ammo and the time reloading and shooting, I want to have fun, and wearing a suit coat every time I train would not be fun. Of course, it might not be an issue if I wore polo shirts or t-shirts to work everyday.

God Bless,
David