6.8 SPC vs 5.56

[Dagga Boy]

I do not intend to try and refute anything that Doc has said here. These are strictly my opinions based on my personal assessment and needs.

I went with a 6.8 for all the reasons Doc has stated. In fact, he and I had talked about it quite a bit at the time. I went as high end as I thought existed at the time, and was pretty disappointed with the accuracy of the gun I ended up with. The maker told me that 6.8's tend to be the least accurate caliber they use. The terrible BC's don't help either if you want to go much past point black zero range. Obviously, other 6.8 guns will be more or less accurate, but after my expensive foray into 6.8, I didn't want to try again. I now have a 6.5 Grendel that is everything I could want. IMHO, it outperforms the 6.8 in every way that matters to ME. My 16" gun will reach past 1000 yards at least as easily as my 175 FGMM 308. Maybe easier. BC is excellent compared to 308. Terminal ballistics on game out to beyond where I am willing to shoot as well. It really is a pretty amazing gun, and ammo is cheaper than equivalent 308.

Is it as reliable as 6.8 or 300blk? I don't think so, for the reasons that Doc mentioned and more. Is it appropriate as a fighting cartridge? Not in my opinion. Again, see reliability.

As a sporting cartridge, I find it to be among the best I have ever used.

There is so much gold here. I am a big fan of the 6.8 SPC. I don't hunt four legged animals, just twos. The 6.8 SPC is a near perfect law enforcement round if you take all the emotion out of the equation and just look at it logically. Optimized for good patrol rifle sized guns. Good on cars. Can be put in sniper systems optimized for typical LE sniper engagement ranges and scenarios. Low recoil and as easy to run as a 5.56 gun. You get 80% of a .308 without many of the issues in recoil, penetration, and size of the .308 systems. The list goes on. What has always been TOTALLY baffling to me is the relentless effort to push it as a hunting cartridge. As a person who hunts evil humans, I have never understood wanting to hunt Moose with a AR-15 based platform. I have a bunch of really awesome hunting rifles that are far more practical for this endeavor if I ever decided that I needed to start killing four legged animals. Essentially, the 6.8 SPC is a under appreciated LE system, that I blame a lot on a whole bunch of folks trying to make it into a hunting round.

I also do not want to be one of those guys who craps on someone else's world without a good reason (no, really....). I understand that some folks want to hunt with the AR. Okay, got it. So I look at all sorts of stuff, and boy it sure looks like 6.5 Grendel makes a better hunting round than the 6.8 SPC does. So I figure if I really wanted a sporting AR, the Grendel makes a ton of sense.

I am working on the "New 30-30 Concept" for awhile. I have been lazy on the paperwork, but when it is done, my Texas 30-30 12.5 LMT LM8 in 6.8SPC is capable of taking all the game in Texas (which is smaller than up north), should slay pigs like a boss, and is very acceptable in this state for people as a defensive carbine, and would make a great LE carbine. A 6.5 version may make more sense farther North, or for someone who is far more concerned about the hunting aspect as I am.

[witchking777]

There is so much gold here. I am a big fan of the 6.8 SPC. I don't hunt four legged animals, just twos. The 6.8 SPC is a near perfect law enforcement round if you take all the emotion out of the equation and just look at it logically. Optimized for good patrol rifle sized guns. Good on cars. Can be put in sniper systems optimized for typical LE sniper engagement ranges and scenarios. Low recoil and as easy to run as a 5.56 gun. You get 80% of a .308 without many of the issues in recoil, penetration, and size of the .308 systems. The list goes on. What has always been TOTALLY baffling to me is the relentless effort to push it as a hunting cartridge. As a person who hunts evil humans, I have never understood wanting to hunt Moose with a AR-15 based platform. I have a bunch of really awesome hunting rifles that are far more practical for this endeavor if I ever decided that I needed to start killing four legged animals. Essentially, the 6.8 SPC is a under appreciated LE system, that I blame a lot on a whole bunch of folks trying to make it into a hunting round.

I also do not want to be one of those guys who craps on someone else's world without a good reason (no, really....). I understand that some folks want to hunt with the AR. Okay, got it. So I look at all sorts of stuff, and boy it sure looks like 6.5 Grendel makes a better hunting round than the 6.8 SPC does. So I figure if I really wanted a sporting AR, the Grendel makes a ton of sense.

I am working on the "New 30-30 Concept" for awhile. I have been lazy on the paperwork, but when it is done, my Texas 30-30 12.5 LMT LM8 in 6.8SPC is capable of taking all the game in Texas (which is smaller than up north), should slay pigs like a boss, and is very acceptable in this state for people as a defensive carbine, and would make a great LE carbine. A 6.5 version may make more sense farther North, or for someone who is far more concerned about the hunting aspect as I am.

Some of the reasons you mention are the reasons I am considering 6.8 as my primary defensive carbine caliber,do I doubt my 5.56 with a good barrier blind round? Not at all! But meh,it's cheaper to shoot an evil 2 legged creature once rather than twice right? All joking aside I appreciate all the answers to my question,the barrel and bolt I'm looking at are ar15performance.com items,socom or scout profile barrel? Mags will be PRI,Barrett,or Cproducts(bloody 'ell Magpul make polymer already besides SIX8),later with a Geiselle gas block,any thoughts?

[Dagga Boy]

Personally, all my 6.8's are LMT MRP based. They work, I run Hornady almost exclusively...so again, it works. The Ar15performance guy thinks I am a moron for using factory ammo and a SAMMI spec gun and was one of the ones who pretty much wrote of any LE opinions because of using factory ammo and not maximizing the round. So essentially, don't have an opinion of his product, not do I care.
I have found it very amusing to see guys on the net talking all sorts of trash about companies not using SPC II or twist of the week, and you gain instant net points for asking about twist and chamber, yet the same people are often using total hobby gun parts and Frankenstein builds with stuff nobody in my circles would ever use on a serious service carbine.

I got a proven combo. I took second in a sniper school against 27 bolt guns with one. I am happy and seeing no issues with the proven combo I am running, including suppressed.

[DocGKR]

These days I prefer a faster twist for 6.8 mm, especially with shorter barrels. SPCII is fine, but not a deal breaker. Currently I only run factory 6.8 mm ammo from ATK or Hornady.

[Dagga Boy]

So all of a sudden, my 1 in 10's are good....;-)

[SLG]

So, Doc and Nyeti and anyone else,

Can you give me a good reason to keep my 6.8? I was thinking of getting rid of it since I have 6.5, .308 and of course lots of 5.56. Is there something it does much better than the rest, given that I have great 5.56 ammo (as well as the other calibers, of course).

[Dagga Boy]

It doesn't sound like you have a need. Again, I wouldn't use mine for the type of hunting you are likely doing with your Grendel. Your 5.56 will likely handle most LE stuff supplemented by .308.

For me, the 6.8 fills several roles and is a very good solution for most urban LE/Defensive scenarios. If I could only get an AUG in 6.8SPC. I also have some very high quality AK's for similar roles. I can also change my 6.8's to 5.56 if I wanted, which is a nice benefit. Once I get my SBR done I can drop a 10.5" 5.56 or .300 BLk barrel in my 12.5 6.8 gun if I wanted with no effort.

[DocGKR]

SLG--for your uses no. The 6.8 mm gives someone with an AR15 an ability to upgrade to a caliber that offers 75% of the terminal performance of a .308 at close to intermediate ranges, but in a small lightweight AR15 carbine package that can use 8-16" barrels and is easy to carry and maneuver with. It is a great option for folks who have AR15 receivers and want to hunt medium game like hogs, deer, elk, and black bear at typical ranges of 300 and in, but have no AR10 available. It also offers LE officers a single caliber that can handle virtually all LE shoulder fired weapon tasks in a lightweight 12" barrel package. Given your current tasks and tools, you don't need it.

[GJM]

I have had the same 6.8 accuracy experience as SLG, as I recall using the same high end brand upper, and many of the same loads.

If it is for hunting, why not the 6.5 Grendel on a Brockman CZ, which is handy, reliable, durable and accurate?

[SLG]

SLG--for your uses no. The 6.8 mm gives someone with an AR15 an ability to upgrade to a caliber that offers 75% of the terminal performance of a .308 at close to intermediate ranges, but in a small lightweight AR15 carbine package that can use 8-16" barrels and is easy to carry and maneuver with. It is a great option for folks who have AR15 receivers and want to hunt medium game like hogs, deer, elk, and black bear at typical ranges of 300 and in, but have no AR10 available. It also offers LE officers a single caliber that can handle virtually all LE shoulder fired weapon tasks in a lightweight 12" barrel package. Given your current tasks and tools, you don't need it.

So do you think there is anything in your description of a 6.8 that my 6.5 can't do? Aside from the fact that I wouldn't carry it on duty (if I could). Other than the Long Range aspect of the 6.5, I see the 6.8 and the 6.5 as filling the same power roles vis-a-vis the 308.