Safety in IDPA Competition

[Mr_White]

Well oops!

I don't know how long. I think the A/M will already pretty much have trigger finger discipline down by the time they get to that level. Though their version may be just outside the trigger guard. Don't know how long to change that to register. I've not encountered exactly that circumstance.

[Dagga Boy]

What would take longer to teach:

1) Assuming they weren't doing it, a USPSA A or IDPA M shooter to place their finger flat and high against the slide when not shooting.

or

2) The typical LE shooter, that had been tutored on the finger high and flat against the slide, to shoot at the USPSA A or IDPA M level.

My guess is about 10-30 minutes to teach an A/M finger discipline, and 1-3 years to teach the average LE shooter USPSA A or IDPA M skills.

LE shooters need a wide range of skills for their job, that has little to do with IDPA or USPSA. A/M who has a ton of repetitions doing something not indexed above the frame will take a significant number of reps, and reps under stress to re-learn a new sub-conscious skill to replace and old one.

I know I can teach regular cops to crush their opponents in gunfights in the field in about a year of dedicated work. Have no clue how long it would take to do well in a shooting sport. I imagine it would be the same as anyone else starting new at the sport.

Realistically, I shouldn't have even posted on this thread. I'll just go back to not reading here as it isn't my lane at all....sorry for the interruption.

[taadski]

LE shooters need a wide range of skills for their job, that has little to do with IDPA or USPSA. A/M who has a ton of repetitions doing something not indexed above the frame will take a significant number of reps, and reps under stress to re-learn a new sub-conscious skill to replace and old one.

I know I can teach regular cops to crush their opponents in gunfights in the field in about a year of dedicated work. Have no clue how long it would take to do well in a shooting sport. I imagine it would be the same as anyone else starting new at the sport.

Realistically, I shouldn't have even posted on this thread. I'll just go back to not reading here as it isn't my lane at all....sorry for the interruption.

Bah! Darrell, your input is absolutely appreciated. Keep it up, please. That said, I would like some IDPA wheel gun footage when you have time!

BTW, you're new profile addendum if fraking hilarious and made me knee slap and LOL if you don't mind my saying.



t

[Alpha Sierra]

I like the hard register in the ejection port a la LAV, Hack and SouthNarc.

It's physically impossible for people with short fingers to do so. I am one of them. And I will not humor anyone who requires me to do so.

[cclaxton]

Thanks for all the great comments and analysis.
I know it's hard to get consensus on anything but would it be fair to say that:

New shooters should be trained to register the trigger finger on the frame and it is more safe to operate than allowing the finger to be just outside the trigger guard. But for shooting sports (IDPA, et.al), shooters are required to keep the muzzle from breaking the 180 rule, and this provides a reasonable safeguard that allows the finger to stay just outside the trigger guard.

I will continue to ask shooters attending my matches to index their trigger finger on the frame during the safety briefings. But I will follow the IDPA rule on calling finger.

Cody

[Wendell]

...New shooters should be trained to register the trigger finger on the frame...

I think it better to emphasize a "High and Hard" index, rather than just on the frame or just outside of the triggerguard. In the end, they have to make the decision for themselves, and they will, and I tell them that they will have to decide upon an index point that works, but I also strongly recommend to them a "High and Hard" index.

[P210-6]

I think it better to emphasize a "High and Hard" index, rather than just on the frame or just outside of the triggerguard. In the end, they have to make the decision for themselves, and they will, and I tell them that they will have to decide upon an index point that works, but I also strongly recommend to them a "High and Hard" index.

Agreed. I teach a "high trigger finger index", where daylight (or as someone else here said "air") is visible thru the guard. At 25ft from the shooter in less than optimal lighting conditions I may not be able to discern if that finger is alongside the trigger guard, or in it.

Others have already stated the multitude of reasons why nasty things can happen during aroused states and handling a handgun.

btw, good thread, as most here are.
P210-6

[cclaxton]

Some ranges restrict muzzles going above their berms. This normally is an issue for some people when reloading with muzzle up. I just trained myself to do a reload into the berm, keeping the firearm parallel with the ground. I find it acceptable. I am not convinced that you suffer much in time. Even Tomasie's reloads show minimal muzzle lift during a reload. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ls4Uq1aCiTA
I have run into some shooters who refuse to shoot at a range that restricts high reloads.
By learning to keep low reloads, I can shoot more often and in a wider variety of matches and circumstances.
It is a liability issue for the ranges.

What are the thoughts of the members here?
Cody

[JV_]

Even Tomasie's reloads show minimal muzzle lift during a reload.

IMO, his muzzle approaches a 45 degree angle, and that's high. It's not straight up, but it's over the berm at most of the outdoor ranges I've visited.



And, he has a HUGE magwell on there. That is a bit more forgiving from a suboptimal cant.

A different cant doesn't necessarily slow me down, but if I miss the reload it sure does. I flub them less if I point the magwell at my mag pouch.

[Clusterfrack]

My local range (TCGC in Portland) also forbids muzzle above the berm. I don't find it a handicap for reloads in IDPA or multigun. For me a muzzle-up reload seems slightly faster, but with a muzzle-level reload I think I can get back on target quicker.