To ASP or not to ASP, that is the question.....

[secondstoryguy]

After asking many of my coworkers and lots of members of other agencies it seems that most have never used their baton and when they have it was less than effective. This is starting to make me think about ditching my baton. I have only used mine to break windows a couple of times and now have other tools for that job. Are there any street cops or former street cops on PF that have ditched their ASPs or other batons?

[Chuck Haggard]

For a lot of reasons, including their training program, I think ASPs suck, and I mean in a very bad way.

This is part of the problem with cops thinking "batons suck" though, equipment does make a difference. If you carried a Raven .25 as a duty weapon then you might think pistols also suck and start to think about getting rid of your handgun on duty as well.

I carry a full sized baton on every call I go on where there is any potential for violence. GOOD baton training and a good baton are very effective, and one thing they are effective at is getting people to stop thinking stupid thoughts just by being in your hand.

[Coyotesfan97]

I ditched my ASP long ago. It's in one of the drawers in the back of my Tahoe. If I think I need a baton on a call I carry my PR24. I'm one of the few that still do. Back in the pre ASP days I never got out of the car without it.

[wilco423]

I stopped carrying my ASP a few years ago. Since I mostly work nights, I almost always have a SL20 in my support hand anyway, so the ASP seemed redundant. That, and I haven't heard of them being particularly effective.

[ST911]

Haven't carried an ASP on the bat belt in many years, but there is one in the truck. I've found more use for it in some plain clothes tasks. Batons largely went away when Tasers hit the road in volume. Echo Chuck and Coyotesfan, a more conventional baton (esp some of the side-handle/PR24 techniques) can make quite a statement.

[BobM]

I think the PR-24 was a much better tool than the ASP. We issue ASPs and are required to carry two non-deadly force options on the belt. Choices are ASP, Taser, or OC.

[jnc36rcpd]

Expandable batons are an example of the triumph of convenience over practicality. Granted, it takes a moment to drop a PR-24 or a straight baton into a ring as you exit the cruiser, but a full-size baton has much more "stopping power" than most expandable baton. Coupled with training programs that emphasize hitting the suspect without injuring him and you are destined for an expandable baton that proves as useful as a callbox key. I was the last holdout with a PR-24 in my agency, but the lack of recertification programs took that tool (which was practically a jnc36rcpd trademark) away.

The primary reasons for retaining expandable batons seem to be liability based. If a department mandates that officers carry expandable batons on their belts, it reduces the risk that an officer shot a suspect because the baton was left under the headrest of the cruiser. OK, copy that, but if expandable batons are issued or authorized, training needs to be more intense and more realistic including closed baton techniques. We need to accept the fact that while it would be preferable not to fracture a suspect's elbow or knee, that is a small price to pay compared to the officer losing the fight or having to escalate from an ineffective baton to deadly force.

This said, I would be intrigued to examine the RCB Peacekeeper which is marketed as a heavier baton than ASP/Monadnock/PPCT offerings and weights the baton toward the front. That might--and I emphasize might--be a practical alternative to what most of us carry.

[secondstoryguy]

The only reason I've kept mine to this point is a lawyer arguing that I didn't go to it before I went to guns. I've seen the Peacekeeper (we have someone that is an instructor for them) and an have played with it a bit on a pad. Someone was thinking right when they made that bad boy, it's a beast.

[saints75]

As soon as my department policy changed on batons, I ditched my department issued ASP. I am using a Monadock Auto Lock baton now. It is better then the ASP baton. I would like to get a Peacekeeper baton. I have played around with it. I like it. Maybe one day.

[John Hearne]

After an incident in which I went through two Taser cartridges, half a can of OC, a Happy Gilmore baton strike, and still wrestled dude on the ground, I still believe in carrying every intermediate option I can. Our policy requires a baton and one other intermediate with most carrying just a Taser and no spray. I like my 26" Monadnock Auto-lock but would happily try one of the heavier options. I still like OC but prefer the spray, run, and wait method of application.

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