How Important Is The Perfect Grip?

[McCoy]

This is a bit of a long question, so I apologize in advance. As a long-time lurker, I figured you were the guys and gals to ask.

My girlfriend got into firearms a little less than a year ago after a guy started stalking her at her job and advanced to progressively creepier and more threatening acts and the cops took the (understandable) position of, "Call us if he actually commits a crime." I'd gotten my CCW license and started taking classes a few years prior, though I still consider myself a novice. We shopped around a bit, test fired a lot of rental guns, and she eventually settled on a Gen 4 Glock 19 (which is what I carry now as well, in case, you know, we get into a Mr. & Mrs. Smith-style multiple assailant gunfight in the streets of suburbia and need magazine interchangeability or whatever).

I figured she wouldn't keep up with it, but she's surprised me, and recently got her own CCW and has been taking a lot of classes (which is great), including several outstanding female-oriented ones that she really seems to like. The problem is, she has tiny hands, and it's becoming more of an issue the more she starts working seriously on things like drawing from concealment. If she gets the proper grip on the gun - seated directly in the web of the hand so it's lined up with the forearm bones, etc. - her index finger just isn't long enough to even make it to the trigger. If she shifts her strong hand to the right a little, she can get to it, but the gun's just slightly offset from that perfect alignment, and that's really started to annoy her.

Her solution is to move to a 1911. She's been banging away with one I have but don't carry, and found that a short 1911 trigger with thin grips lets her both get the "perfect" alignment and get enough finger on the trigger for proper trigger control. She's slowly shopping around for a 1911, and I'm trying to talk her out of it. My argument's pretty simple; I think sacrificing some perfection on the grip in favor of sticking with a far less expensive gun she already owns beats transitioning to a less concealable, heavier, far more expensive pistol with less capacity. She shoots the 1911 better, but only marginally so (at least as far as her time and accuracy on the drills she shoots goes). I can field strip a 1911, but that's really about it, and I know that I'd find one a pain in the ass to carry and conceal every day, so I'm thinking it'll be even harder for her to carry (as she's a hell of a lot smaller than I am), and the extra maintenance/knowledge burden might turn her off completely after a while.

So what's the verdict? Is proper gun-wrist-forearm alignment absolutely necessary, or should I keep banging the drum on sticking with the less-than-perfect grip on the Glock? She'll do what she'll do anyway, but I'd like to talk her out of throwing a kilobuck at a Colt Railgun or whatever if I can.

[TCinVA]

The wrist forearm thing is not important. Getting the right interface on the gun for her, is.

People who have small hands often have less grip strength than we larger mammals and may attempt to compensate on the trigger by using more trigger finger, thus exaggerating their problem. She will want to steer clear of that if possible.

As for the rest of her grip, knowing what the grip is supposed to do will help. I'm stuck on my iPhone so it's tough to type a thorough description, so perhaps some others who know what I'm talking about will explain a good grip...but the "perfect" alignment with the forearm isn't perfect by any means, certainly not for every human being picking up a handgun.

[Chuck Haggard]

I'd suggest trying a Shield or a Glock 42

Handgun to hand fit is way undervalued IMHO

[JV_]

If she gets the proper grip on the gun - seated directly in the web of the hand so it's lined up with the forearm bones, etc. - her index finger just isn't long enough to even make it to the trigger. If she shifts her strong hand to the right a little, she can get to it, but the gun's just slightly offset from that perfect alignment, and that's really started to annoy her.

I have small hands and have a similar problem. I have to rotate my hand to the right a little, it's no big deal, it's certainly not the limiting factor in my shooting ability. Having small hands does complicate reaching the mag button, I have to shift my grip for that, even on a Gen4. One key part is to focus pulling the trigger straight back, don't let the grip shift impact your ability to correctly manipulate the trigger.

Can you get a picture to see how much grip shift she requires? There can be too much shift required. I'm not sure if we could tell if it's too much without seeing her shoot, but we may be able to see if something is really askew.

She may also want to look at an M&P with small back strap, if she wants a full size gun, or even an M&P compact.

[McCoy]

I have small hands and have a similar problem. I have to rotate my hand to the right a little, it's no big deal, it's certainly not the limiting factor in my shooting ability. Having small hands does complicate reaching the mag button, I have to shift my grip for that, even on a Gen4. One key part is to focus pulling the trigger straight back, don't let the grip shift impact your ability to correctly manipulate the trigger.

Can you get a picture to see how much grip shift she requires? There can be too much shift required.

She may also want to look at an M&P with small back strap, if she wants a full size gun, or even an M&P compact.

I'll see if I can get a picture when we're both at home.

The M&P was one we looked at before she settled on the Glock 19. Same issue, surprisingly, though in retrospect probably not quite as bad. Same goes for my P30 with the smallest back strap and right panels.

Any of the usual polymer double stacks, even the ones recommended for small hands, end up with her hand slightly offset and no separation at all between her trigger finger and the frame, and juuuuust enough fingertip on the trigger itself to press it. The beavertail comes close to riding the first knuckle of her thumb, if not doing so outright.

And Chuck, the Shield is one we actually didn't try, I'll have to coax her out to take a look. Edit: I stopped following much M&P discussion when it became conventional wisdom that the 9mm varietals had accuracy issues at certain ranges. That still the case, and does it affect the Shield as well?

[holygoat]

For lots of people even a full size 1911 conceals better IWB than a Glock, and a 1911 with an alloy frame isn't all that heavy.

See how she feels comparing a Shield (or other single-stack carry 9mm) to an alloy 1911.

[olstyn]

the Shield is one we actually didn't try, I'll have to coax her out to take a look.

Have her try the Walther PPS while you're at it; in addition to the benefits the Shield has, the PPS's paddle mag release can be used with the trigger finger, meaning she shouldn't have to shift her grip to get it. It's also a VERY thin gun (0.9 inches thick), which should make it easier for a smaller person to conceal, especially if close-fitting clothing is an issue. The downside, of course, is reduced capacity; it carries 6, 7, or 8 rounds of 9mm, depending on which mag you choose to use, but of course that's pretty much the same story with the Shield.

[P210-6]

The most important factors for possessing a pistol, in order are:

1. Being able to lawfully possess the gun where you are domiciled.
2. Reliability of the gun.
3. Grip.

Of course, availability of ammunition is likewise critically important, but even then if there is no ammo for the gun you need a pretty darned good reverse grip to beat the bad guy until he stops or leaves.


You ask - "how important is the grip"? Far more important than caliber, brand or size. A reliable 1911 can be had for under $650, and there are some 9mm variants I hear are stoutly reliable as well.
Ideally, both of you having the same platform makes a lot of sense (shared magazines, pouches, holsters, parts), having two Glock 19s reduces everything to deciding about stuff for one gun.

[JV_]

A reliable 1911 can be had for under $650, and there are some 9mm variants I hear are stoutly reliable as well.

Please name the make and models.

[Chuck Haggard]

While I'm not into the Shields (yet) as much as some of my friends, I hear not reports of these being inaccurate. Some of the guns I have shot are owned by guys who wouldn't tolerate an inaccurate gun, like Spencer.

Grip makes a drastic difference at times, more so with gals in my observation, and we dudes forget that.

My wife had my G26, and shot it fine, but getting her master grip on the draw was an issue, so was trigger reach as the OP has noted. She tried a borrowed Kahr on a whim while we were at the range, after firing several magazines from the Kahr she walked over with my unloaded G26, now being held like it was a smelly dead rat, and tells me that I am buying her a Kahr. The difference in ability to grip at speed, and to work the trigger, was dramatic for her. I would submit that getting solid hits with the first 2-3 shots in a gun is normally vastly more important than having 15 rounds in the gun.