question from new member

[Lomshek]

Depends on where you are at and what you are doing. I am pretty much close one eye to get a good clear picture of the front sight for most of my shooting and training. I see shooting (with standard sights) with both eyes open as a close to ninja level skill.

If you are nailing everything out to 25 yards in a 8 inch circle under time pressure and got all your manipulations down to no thought muscle memory, then I can see taking the step to two eyes. I'm not there and probably won't/can't put the time in.

Lot of more experienced folks should answer, interested in the discussion.

Cookie Monster

It's not ninja at all but does require some focused practice. I've had no problem training newbies such that by their third (or so) range practice session they can do it. I use a target paster or piece of tape as opposed to the paper towel HCM mentioned. Just be sure that it blocks the center of the blocked eye's vision so that eye only picks up peripheral objects and doesn't allow that eye to create a ghost front sight image.

[Cookie Monster]

It's not ninja at all but does require some focused practice. I've had no problem training newbies such that by their third (or so) range practice session they can do it. I use a target paster or piece of tape as opposed to the paper towel HCM mentioned. Just be sure that it blocks the center of the blocked eye's vision so that eye only picks up peripheral objects and doesn't allow that eye to create a ghost front sight image.

Interesting, I've been through a lot of training classes and two eyes have never been mentioned (maybe never the right ones). The best descriptions I've read have been through Todd's and OAK's post here on pistol forum. I've worked on it a little with dry practice but never with enough commitment to make good progress or "to get it''.

I've also been brainwashed a bit to keep an intense focus on the front sight so default to that.

Glad to here the other answers. Now if someone could teach me how to close my dominate eye and keep my non-dominate eye open, that would be a revolution for me running my long guns.

Cookie Monster

[P210-6]

From the reading I've done and instruction that I've received, I have the impression that the question of weak eye open or closed is a secondary issue at best. You can become a very proficient shooter either way and there are, from my understanding, many good shooters on both sides.

From a self defense perspective, shooting both eyes open may offer a marginal advantage for situational awareness purposes. Personally, I tend to get tunnel vision when I am concentrating on my sights anyway and so fail to see the benefit. If you are shooting weak eye closed (from a self defense perspective), you probably want to minimize the time that the weak eye is closed. You can train yourself to reduce that time to just barely a blink.

I'm another novice shooter chiming in on this. I may be completely off base, and if so hope that someone will correct me.

- and -

Twice as much vision seems more than a marginal advantage. Conversely, eliminating half of your most important sense on purpose doesn't seem like a good idea.

JollyGreen, for sighted shooting using both eyes to do the math (this is exactly what we are doing) for sight alignment and to a less degree aiming (getting that proper sight picture accurately superimposed on the intended target) is better than using one eye, as this allows for better resolution of what we are seeing - if in our daily lives we use both eyes. This is already how our brain deals with visual data.
It is said that some 70% of all information humans process is from vision.
"Tunnel vision" is a combination of a narrowed field of view as well as stimulus selection/processing/rejection. It can be more of one than the other. Some of what we think we do not see under stress, we still see - just as under stress, all of the auditory information that hits our ear drums still cause them to vibrate, but that this sense may be diminished due to different processing priorities...we simply shed what we consider to be extraneous information and lock in on what we perceive is important. Under stress, our field of view does narrow, in both the horizontal and vertical axes.

Hopeton Brown, hello (from another newbie like JollyGreen). Vision from each of our eyes overlap. If memory (which is nowhere where it used to be) serves me well, our field of view is about 165 degrees in the horizontal, 135 degrees in the vertical, and our dual (binocular) field of view is about 115 degrees (all measured from our center). Closing one eye does not shut down 50% of the visual data to out brain, but it is still a big chunk.

When we look at the physiology of the eye, our depth perception, color perception and motion perception are geared towards binocular view.

To add, as we age, everything falls apart (go ahead, ask me how I know!). How many times have we heard someone in their 60s or 70s speak of how their bulls-eye shooting has declined - but they are still able to kick butt while chewing gum? No, they are not lying. They (we) all are able to adapt.

Great forum, I have lurked for a while, and did not feel there was anything of value I could contribute. Even this post was reluctantly made, as I am not an authority on vision, sight or visual processing. I am just an old gas bag who realized long ago (like Mr. Brown above) that the eyes are the most important sense.

P210-6

[P210-6]

True dual dominance? I bet that it is rare.

Cross dominance, where one eye is only slightly stronger than the other and both tend to fight each other? More common than it appears. I suffer from it and it is frustrating, particularly when dealing with long guns.

Not really "rare".

Eye dominance, in layman terms is "that eye which gets information to the brain faster, more accurately". My own eye dominance switched 30 years ago when I suffered damage to my then dominant eye. We would always want to focus on sights with our dominant eye - our systems have already sussed out that stuff for us. And, we would strive to keep both eyes open as mentioned in my post above.

Now you young uns are wearing me out!

Two posts in one day, I need to lay down for a while...

p210-6

[HopetonBrown]

This was posted to YouTube yesterday. Pistol Shooting with Both Eyes Open - Competitive…: http://youtu.be/Lfr5QZogWJg

[swarty1]

Thanks everyone for the feed back. Gonna have to try some of the recommendations here and see how it works out

[Lomshek]

I've also been brainwashed a bit to keep an intense focus on the front sight so default to that.

Glad to here the other answers. Now if someone could teach me how to close my dominate eye and keep my non-dominate eye open, that would be a revolution for me running my long guns.

Cookie Monster

Proper two eye shooting does not eliminate your ability to focus on the front sight at all. Developing the ability to do that requires lots of practice (more so for someone who's spent years shooting one eyed). How intense of a front sight focus you have is dictated by how "easy" the target is (as Doug Koening says in the linked video). I wish he was using clear glasses so the viewer could see his eyes and how relaxed he looks.

For myself I shoot two eyes open on everything but very high precision shots. A body shot at 25 yards is both eyes open but a head shot at 50 yards is a one eye affair for me. Everyone's comfort level is different.

On dominant vs. non-dominant eye/hand a person has to try the options to decide. Is it easier to make your non-dominant hand or non-dominant eye become capable? Everyone's wired differently so you just have to try.

The steps to two eye shooting are this.
1) Place a large opaque patch (masking tape for instance) that blocks most of the vision out of the eye you want to block.
2) Place a smaller opaque patch (1" paster square) over the desired eye so peripheral vision is good but center vision is blocked.
3) Place a tiny opaque patch (1/2" or smaller paster square) over the blocked eye so only dead center vision is blocked.
4) Place a tiny translucent patch (scotch tape) over the blocked eye so the eye has full peripheral vision and fuzzy center vision.
5) Shoot both eyes open now that the brain has been trained to give the desired eye "priority" for sight picture.

Some folks can skip steps and some folks have to spend more time on some steps than others.

[jetfire]

For USPSA/IDPA and similar activities that don't require really fine accuracy, I usually shoot with both eyes open unless a particular shot requires a really hard front sight focus.

For sports that require serious accuracy like Bianchi Cup or Bullseye I will wear a shooter's patch over my non dominant eye so that I can have the accuracy advantage of monocular vision without the strain of closing one eye.