Practical Competition Rules

[taadski]

Gents,

My intention was not at all to come off terse. Need more caffeine perhaps.

I realize I'm preaching to the choir, but there are any number of suitable means of utilizing a handgun with a light. And while I might appreciate one or more of the accessory based ones, I'm also a bit dogmatic of the basics and I view those one handed light skills (san accessories, that is) as cornerstone skills in working at night.

I appreciate Claude's crawl-walk-run type skill building and it sounds like a potentially cool solution to the problem. I'm not sure how that'd work out at some of our clubs time-wise though. It seems hard enough to get people to spend the few extra minutes it takes to help tear down some days. In a class based environment? Absolutely.

Without a doubt. It's absolutely assinine to force shooters to fumble with a light and a gun, especially when trying to execute a reload.

I guess my point in making the comment was that I don't view IDPA as forcing anyone to fumble anything. We're required to reload our weapons during courses of fire. If fumbles occur, be it day or night, so be it (obvious safety clause inserted), drive on, get the process done and continue the course of fire.

FWIW, I have seen some malarkey (fumbling?) take place with various light accessories too. On more than one occasion, as an example, I've seen folks give themselves bloody lips and in one case a chipped tooth reloading with their handheld on a lanyard. Teach cops for long enough and you're bound to witness the full spectrum. My guess is that IDPA's take on the matter is more along the lines of not wanting to require given devices (WMLs, Surefire rings, lanyards, etc, etc…) in order for folks to be competitive. Again, I don't personally feel strongly one way or the other re the rule.


t

[Wheeler]

Gents,

My intention was not at all to come off terse. Need more caffeine perhaps.

I realize I'm preaching to the choir, but there are any number of suitable means of utilizing a handgun with a light. And while I might appreciate one or more of the accessory based ones, I'm also a bit dogmatic of the basics and I view those one handed light skills (san accessories, that is) as cornerstone skills in working at night.

I appreciate Claude's crawl-walk-run type skill building and it sounds like a potentially cool solution to the problem. I'm not sure how that'd work out at some of our clubs time-wise though. It seems hard enough to get people to spend the few extra minutes it takes to help tear down some days. In a class based environment? Absolutely.






I guess my point in making the comment was that I don't view IDPA as forcing anyone to fumble anything. We're required to reload our weapons during courses of fire. If fumbles occur, be it day or night, so be it (obvious safety clause inserted), drive on, get the process done and continue the course of fire.

FWIW, I have seen some malarkey (fumbling?) take place with various light accessories too. On more than one occasion, as an example, I've seen folks give themselves bloody lips and in one case a chipped tooth reloading with their handheld on a lanyard. Teach cops for long enough and you're bound to witness the full spectrum. My guess is that IDPA's take on the matter is more along the lines of not wanting to require given devices (WMLs, Surefire rings, lanyards, etc, etc…) in order for folks to be competitive. Again, I don't personally feel strongly one way or the other re the rule.


t

Point taken and I didn't view your previous post as terse at all, then again I had already had a few cups of coffee. :-)

I agree that handling a firearm and a light at the same time is a critical skill. It's actually easier for me to operate a pistol and a light utilizing a slightly modified Harries grip than a WML. I'm working on improving that skill as time allows.
Claude runs a low/no light match about once a year with a surprisingly (to me) low turn out. It's understood that the match will take approximately X amount of time and will start in the daylight.
We've run no light matches at indoor ranges in the past. It is logistically challenging, especially if a higher than expected number of shooters turn up.

[NETim]

Yesterday's little indoor IDPA match vividly demonstrated the increasing need for more light for my aging eyes. It was difficult to pick up the sights all too often.

So, a good portion of today's range session was devoted to work with a light in the IDPA approved manner. Placing the light in my armpit was easy. Getting a good grip on it when needed again was dicey, even with a light jacket and no gloves.

But I think I need that light at the next indoor match. Something else to work on.

[joshs]

Yesterday's little indoor IDPA match vividly demonstrated the increasing need for more light for my aging eyes. It was difficult to pick up the sights all too often.

So, a good portion of today's range session was devoted to work with a light in the IDPA approved manner. Placing the light in my armpit was easy. Getting a good grip on it when needed again was dicey, even with a light jacket and no gloves.

But I think I need that light at the next indoor match. Something else to work on.

Have you tried keeping the light in your hand while you reload? I don't have particularly large hands, and I've never had an issue with reloading with a flashlight in my hand. I use a grip similar to what I use for a tac reload.

[NETim]

Have you tried keeping the light in your hand while you reload? I don't have particularly large hands, and I've never had an issue with reloading with a flashlight in my hand. I use a grip similar to what I use for a tac reload.

No. Never thought to try it. I have fairly large hands and because I'm a natural righty shooting lefty (cross dominant) I should be to make this work, if I put in the time to practice.

Thanks for the suggestion!

[1986s4]

New practical shooting sport. My ideas:
More latitude with regard to stage design, let's use our imaginations. I would limit the required round count per stage, I like the 18 round limit of IDPA. This keeps it real and affordable for newer shooters. Fault lines yes, make the shots tight and put the shooter in compromised positions.

I would keep power factors and create a division for those pistols/calibers that make the higher PF with factory ammo.

Keep the mag limits of 10+1 and 8+1. So those who live in blighted locals can remain competitive.

Pistol divisions: semi-auto pistol 10+1, semi auto pistol 8+1 higher PF, revolver 5, 6,7 or 8 round. Or have the 8 round revolvers shoot in pistol 8+1.

Concealment required. Holsters must be safe to use and retain the pistol when held upside down.

These are just general rules and would require some massaging but when in doubt this sport would keep it simple. Shoot what you have and promote pistol handling skill and a higher lever of shooting proficiency.

[cclaxton]

Have you tried keeping the light in your hand while you reload? I don't have particularly large hands, and I've never had an issue with reloading with a flashlight in my hand. I use a grip similar to what I use for a tac reload.

If you practice, it is easy to do the reload with the light in your weak hand, if you hold it like a cigar. I had issues with my flashlight because I had not practiced with the little flashlight enough, especially for reloads. Smaller is not easier...well easier for shooting grip, but not easier for aim and reloading since it's almost too small. I may go back to the Fenix.
Cody

[Sal Picante]

A lot of discussion about minor vs major scoring... I dunno. I really like it a lot.

I shoot production primarily, but enjoy the fact that there are almost 2 games in USPSA (minor vs major)... That said, I just try to shoot faster and better than anyone. Kitten the open guys: just shoot faster.

http://combinedresults.info/index.php/match/12948

[Mr_White]

A lot of discussion about minor vs major scoring... I dunno. I really like it a lot.

I shoot production primarily, but enjoy the fact that there are almost 2 games in USPSA (minor vs major)... That said, I just try to shoot faster and better than anyone. Kitten the open guys: just shoot faster.

http://combinedresults.info/index.php/match/12948

Very nice!

Looks like some great shooting.

[Sal Picante]

Very nice!

Looks like some great shooting.

Thanks Boss!