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Thread: GADPA Discontinues IDPA Affiliation

  1. #61
    Member cclaxton's Avatar
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    The latest from GADPA.
    To our GADPA Family,

    This purpose of this message is to, hopefully, clear up some of the confusion around the board of director’s decision from last Monday night. We will not be going into the details of who did what to whom. We know that this will not stop all of the questions that everyone will be asking about our announcement but we hope that this will help you to understand our position.

    The 2014 IDPA Georgia State Championship was a lot of work and it was well received by the competitors. However, for those of us involved in the administration side of the match, it just wasn’t fun having to deal with the IDPA bureaucracy. The BOD spent hundreds of hours setting up this match. Only those who selflessly donate their time know the hundreds of details that go into putting on a match of this size and quality. It took years to refine the details in order to make the match run as smoothly as possible. It wasn’t perfect and it never will be, but were it not for the GADPA volunteers, there would be no matches at all.

    IDPA HQ has for many years made decisions and rules that fall beyond our grasp. Without going into any specifics, their actions have destroyed our confidence in the organization. Specifics will just lead to a shouting contest and solve nothing. As a result of this loss of confidence, the BOD has decided to no longer run IDPA governed matches. GADPA is a not-for-profit organization and all of the work that is put into the shooting sports is for fun. When the fun is gone, the life blood of the organization dies. GADPA has grown from one outdoor match with an average attendance of 36 shooters to 10 indoor matches and an average outdoor match attendance of approximately 100. To put it succinctly, we love the defensive pistol shooting sports!

    The BOD made the choice to walk away from IDPA because of the headaches associated with dealing with IDPA leadership. We have no ill will towards IDPA and think that it a good sport for the people that enjoy it, but for GADPA, it is no longer the direction that we would like to pursue. Many other clubs in the southeast and around the country have made the same decision. With 300 members, GADPA is probably the biggest club to make this move and for this reason the decision has stirred quite a bit of controversy. That was not our goal.
    We pride ourselves in the comradery that has developed and consider our members family. This decision may not sit well with all of our GADPA shooters and it was not our intent to upset you. However, GADPA is completely comprised of volunteers and is structured as a not for profit organization. Everyone within GADPA is allowed to volunteer their time as they see fit. The BOD has chosen to no longer VOLUNTEER our time toward IDPA.

    GADPA will continue to hold defensive pistol shooting matches. We will adopt a set of rules and the members will have an opportunity to provide feedback. This will take some time, but we will not do it without GADPA member input. We will continue to be a defensive pistol shooting sport and have no plans to join USPSA.

    In the interim, GADPA matches will be run using current IDPA rules, subject to the MD's discretion as to stage design and course of fire. This will afford the MD the flexibility to adjust the course of fire to enhance the match without fear of IDPA HQ criticism. For example, the MD may add more than the authorized number of non-threats, have stages that require strong hand shooting at longer distances or require support hand shooting on the move, and similar adjustments that are not allowed under the current rules, but can enhance the match and the participant's shooting skills. We will encourage MDs to avoid courses of fire that result in the shooter forming bad habits should they wish to compete in other official IDPA matches, but we won't require that stages be thrown out if a competitor objects. We recognize GADPA's roots and that there are many who will still be competing in that arena.
    As far as the indoor matches are concerned, we hope they stay with GADPA, but each match will be free to decide what direction they wish to take. If the MD(s), shooters, and range management wish to form their own IDPA club and join the national organization, they are free to do so. We will not stand in the way. It is our hope that both organizations can coexist without animosity.

    Lastly, the BOD recognizes who our customers are -- you the shooter. You got involved in competitive shooting because you enjoyed both the people and the matches we run. That is not going to change!

    Sincerely,

    GADPA Board of DirectorsCapel English
    Rhett Crutchfield
    Mark Gallo
    Brett Hanus
    Matt McKee
    Ken Murano
    Eric Mandus
    That a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state;

  2. #62
    Member orionz06's Avatar
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    Not bad. Now the question is will IDPA respond or will they just plug their ears, scream LA LA LA, and continue down the same path they always have?
    Think for yourself. Question authority.

  3. #63
    Member cclaxton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by orionz06 View Post
    Not bad. Now the question is will IDPA respond or will they just plug their ears, scream LA LA LA, and continue down the same path they always have?
    They should sell the story to a daytime TV producer, or reality show.
    Cody
    That a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state;

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by OrigamiAK View Post
    KSTG has some potential for sure, but G34s need to be legal. I know it's been decided otherwise though.
    Quote Originally Posted by JV View Post
    Agreed
    I still don't own a G34, but agree on principle just the same. My view is that any good defensive gun "game" needs to provide a platform to test equipment under a variety of experimental conditions, to both validate choices in gear as well as in the skills of those using that gear under stress (even if only the stress of a match). I know that KSTG went the other way - deliberately seeking to funnel folks into a specific range of gear choices that were validated by consensus. And that isn't always a bad thing in terms up forcing some folks at the entry level to think very hard about their assumptions and bring enough gun, and to wear the gun one actually wants to wear versus a barely disguised race gun and vest. But a lot of utility in terms of data collection at scale does get lost. Nonetheless though some folks are doing their best to bring that utility at the individual level; as witnessed by the wide range of interesting weapons that come out over the years, including the revolvers, 3rd gen smiths, et al. But that tends to be folks that don't focus on match wins (though a few folks there are pretty damn good to begin with in their own right, and could go for the win in a more conventional gear choice I am sure).

    I still would like to see more experimental / validation stages; truly set up to test hard questions. Things like "need" for single stack versus double stack in solving certain problems; WML versus handheld versus laser, fiber versus tritium under varying light conditions, or even out towards the margin cases such as flappy paddle mag release versus traditional mag release (or even versus euro style heel clip). We used to get a lot of this ancillary to the gun games - if folks bothered to take notes. Then again, maybe these objectives aren't suitable as a game thing anymore, but needs to be a structured testing program in a private study group.

  5. #65
    Member Wheeler's Avatar
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    Jawja
    Quote Originally Posted by cclaxton View Post
    The latest from GADPA.
    To our GADPA Family,

    This purpose of this message is to, hopefully, clear up some of the confusion around the board of director’s decision from last Monday night. We will not be going into the details of who did what to whom. We know that this will not stop all of the questions that everyone will be asking about our announcement but we hope that this will help you to understand our position.

    The 2014 IDPA Georgia State Championship was a lot of work and it was well received by the competitors. However, for those of us involved in the administration side of the match, it just wasn’t fun having to deal with the IDPA bureaucracy. The BOD spent hundreds of hours setting up this match. Only those who selflessly donate their time know the hundreds of details that go into putting on a match of this size and quality. It took years to refine the details in order to make the match run as smoothly as possible. It wasn’t perfect and it never will be, but were it not for the GADPA volunteers, there would be no matches at all.

    IDPA HQ has for many years made decisions and rules that fall beyond our grasp. Without going into any specifics, their actions have destroyed our confidence in the organization. Specifics will just lead to a shouting contest and solve nothing. As a result of this loss of confidence, the BOD has decided to no longer run IDPA governed matches. GADPA is a not-for-profit organization and all of the work that is put into the shooting sports is for fun. When the fun is gone, the life blood of the organization dies. GADPA has grown from one outdoor match with an average attendance of 36 shooters to 10 indoor matches and an average outdoor match attendance of approximately 100. To put it succinctly, we love the defensive pistol shooting sports!

    The BOD made the choice to walk away from IDPA because of the headaches associated with dealing with IDPA leadership. We have no ill will towards IDPA and think that it a good sport for the people that enjoy it, but for GADPA, it is no longer the direction that we would like to pursue. Many other clubs in the southeast and around the country have made the same decision. With 300 members, GADPA is probably the biggest club to make this move and for this reason the decision has stirred quite a bit of controversy. That was not our goal.
    We pride ourselves in the comradery that has developed and consider our members family. This decision may not sit well with all of our GADPA shooters and it was not our intent to upset you. However, GADPA is completely comprised of volunteers and is structured as a not for profit organization. Everyone within GADPA is allowed to volunteer their time as they see fit. The BOD has chosen to no longer VOLUNTEER our time toward IDPA.

    GADPA will continue to hold defensive pistol shooting matches. We will adopt a set of rules and the members will have an opportunity to provide feedback. This will take some time, but we will not do it without GADPA member input. We will continue to be a defensive pistol shooting sport and have no plans to join USPSA.

    In the interim, GADPA matches will be run using current IDPA rules, subject to the MD's discretion as to stage design and course of fire. This will afford the MD the flexibility to adjust the course of fire to enhance the match without fear of IDPA HQ criticism. For example, the MD may add more than the authorized number of non-threats, have stages that require strong hand shooting at longer distances or require support hand shooting on the move, and similar adjustments that are not allowed under the current rules, but can enhance the match and the participant's shooting skills. We will encourage MDs to avoid courses of fire that result in the shooter forming bad habits should they wish to compete in other official IDPA matches, but we won't require that stages be thrown out if a competitor objects. We recognize GADPA's roots and that there are many who will still be competing in that arena.
    As far as the indoor matches are concerned, we hope they stay with GADPA, but each match will be free to decide what direction they wish to take. If the MD(s), shooters, and range management wish to form their own IDPA club and join the national organization, they are free to do so. We will not stand in the way. It is our hope that both organizations can coexist without animosity.

    Lastly, the BOD recognizes who our customers are -- you the shooter. You got involved in competitive shooting because you enjoyed both the people and the matches we run. That is not going to change!

    Sincerely,

    GADPA Board of DirectorsCapel English
    Rhett Crutchfield
    Mark Gallo
    Brett Hanus
    Matt McKee
    Ken Murano
    Eric Mandus
    Nothing like taking the high road without explaining anything. :-)

  6. #66
    Member cclaxton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wheeler View Post
    Nothing like taking the high road without explaining anything. :-)
    I wouldn't say that. They laid the foundation of their complaints out there. They pointed directly at IDPA leadership.

    Good leadership requires the confidence of their customers. To dig themselves out of this hole IDPA leaders need to make bold moves and apologize and get ahead of this....or change leadership. We know that formula works....tried and true American formula.

    what will IDPA Do?
    Cody
    That a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state;

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by cclaxton View Post
    what will IDPA Do?
    Say that working with match administration will get you killed on the streets.

    I doubt that IDPA will do anything about it unless there is a major hemorrhage, they've done a lot of BS moves lately and they've said not one thing about it.

    It is quite clear that the only members opinion that IDPA HQ will listen to is gross membership revenue. People and clubs need to vote with their membership dollars.

  8. #68
    Member cclaxton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PPGMD View Post
    I doubt that IDPA will do anything about it unless there is a major hemorrhage, they've done a lot of BS moves lately and they've said not one thing about it. It is quite clear that the only members opinion that IDPA HQ will listen to is gross membership revenue. People and clubs need to vote with their membership dollars.
    I don't have any inside information. But I have seen this happen to other organizations on the business side. There are three typical reactions:
    1) They continue to deny and defend and eventually be replaced by those who are concerned more about the future of the organization, which is often those with money or power on the line, or;
    2) They realize they need to change, or need to fix things, and make the right moves to publicly apologize and announce bold initiatives, change things they can change immediately, and try to control the damage and accept the changes with gusto, or;
    3) The organization is working to affect change but there is a political gridlock over what to do, when to do it, who will do it, etc. In other words, it's a dysfunctional situation and those with power and influence don't have sufficient power or influence to break the gridlock.

    I don't know which of these situations and I suspect only the insiders will know which of these apply. I suspect it is not number 2 or they would have already taken more positive action. I do think it's worth saving, as long as they embrace change, and dramatic change, and address the many issues and problems with the operation of IDPA and the rules and the sport. But they need to take bold action soon or the hole they have to dig out of will just get deeper and eventually too deep to dig out.
    Cody

    Cody
    That a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state;

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by abu fitna View Post
    I still would like to see more experimental / validation stages; truly set up to test hard questions. Things like "need" for single stack versus double stack in solving certain problems; WML versus handheld versus laser, fiber versus tritium under varying light conditions, or even out towards the margin cases such as flappy paddle mag release versus traditional mag release (or even versus euro style heel clip). We used to get a lot of this ancillary to the gun games - if folks bothered to take notes. Then again, maybe these objectives aren't suitable as a game thing anymore, but needs to be a structured testing program in a private study group.
    Yup. You want something with a collegial, experimental approach rather than sheer cutthroat competition. Not going to happen on a widespread basis, the best you could do would be to get it going someplace convenient and start writing gunzine and gunboard articles.

    GADPA says: We will encourage MDs to avoid courses of fire that result in the shooter forming bad habits should they wish to compete in other official IDPA matches,
    That's considerate of them, might help avoid inbreeding.
    I know one guy here who is reluctant to get into outlaw shoots that dispense with some of those niggling little rules because he fears it would condition him to collect procedurals in sanctioned matches. Some still do want to play by the rules even if they don't like all of them.

  10. #70
    Member Wheeler's Avatar
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    Jawja
    Quote Originally Posted by cclaxton View Post
    I wouldn't say that. They laid the foundation of their complaints out there. They pointed directly at IDPA leadership.

    Good leadership requires the confidence of their customers. To dig themselves out of this hole IDPA leaders need to make bold moves and apologize and get ahead of this....or change leadership. We know that formula works....tried and true American formula.

    what will IDPA Do?
    Cody
    Please refer back to the post I made in reference to knowing the GADPA players and the games they play. IDPA is not the only culprit in this drama.

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