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  1. #1
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    Feb 2011
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    North Miami

    Sig P226 DAO or DAK

    Anyone have any experience with either of these models that can give me some feed back?? I've shot Sigs before in the army, but never in these configurations. I love the ergonomics of the gun, the 226 has always pointed very natural for me and I can manipulate all the controls without moving my grip around. How would you guys rate the double action only configurations as far as quality, accuracy, reliability and which trigger is more beneficial for duty use? Both of the guns I'm looking at are about 4-6 years old, very good condition and have a stainless slide. Is there any benefit to this trigger system vs a glock which is what I currently carry? I've dry fired both guns and have no issues with the trigger weight.

  2. #2
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    Feb 2011
    Location
    Rockville, MD
    I'd opt for the DAK over the DAO, lighter trigger pull and the option for a shorter reset (at the expense of a weird heavier-than-normal trigger pull when you reset it short). But personally, I'd much prefer a standard DA/SA configuration SIG over either the DAO or DAK.
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  3. #3
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    Feb 2011
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    North Miami
    Thanks for the quick response. I just did a search on the net in regards to my original post and found a similar thread on another forum were you discussed in further detail the pros and cons of the DAK vs DAO. Unfortunately for me my department only allows only DAO sig 226, S&W 5943 DAO, and glock 17 and 21.

  4. #4
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    Feb 2011
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    Anybody know what parts are required to change from standard DAO to the DAK system?

  5. #5
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    Jul 2011
    Location
    Texas

    DAK by far...

    Our agency issued the Berretta 96D Brigadier (DAO .40) for years, with an optional personal purchase of a Sig 229 DAO if an officer felt it fit their hand better. What I personally found was the 96D trigger pull of around 8lbs was far superior to the Sig DAO trigger pull of 11 to 12 lbs. I opted to tote the 96D and never felt under gunned. My only complaint was how big the pistol was for only holding 11+1.

    Time and purchase contracts move on, and for a brief time we had HK USPc LEM, and Glock 19 pistols in the mix. For the last few years we are issued the Sig 229 DAK, with an option to personally purchase a 229 DA/SA. The DAK system on my pistol comes in at about 6.5lbs, and is smooth as glass. I actually purchased the DA/SA model and installed the Short Reset Trigger with the intent of transitioning to it. I shot our qual course with both and score 98 to 99% with both pistols... No real difference except having to remember to de-cock with one...

    All that being said, I stuck with the DAK. If I ever have to use it in the real world, I will probably be in full adrenaline dump mode, and I feel more comfortable with one consistent trigger pull. If I were shooting bulls-eye competition, I might want the DA/SA, but for fighting the DAK is the way to go. I would not go with the DAO, due to its heavier trigger pull. Also, it is possible to "short stroke" the DAO trigger by not allowing it to move all the way forward to reset. As Todd mentioned above, the DAK has a sort of half way reset. If you move the trigger all the way forward, you get your standard 6.5 to 7 lbs pull, but if you short stroke and catch the half way reset point, you get a shorter, heavier pull of 7.5 to 8 lbs. Still, a very manageable trigger pull even at the increased weight.

    The DAK System is smooth, like a quality revolver, once it is broken in. Mine has been carried since 2005, and has close to 8K rounds through it. Its trigger is noticeably smoother than the new pistols we get shipped in. Like most guns, it will smooth out the more you shoot it. It is not quite as fast on hammer drills, or the el presidente as a Glock trigger, but for a fighting handgun it works... and works well.

    All I have had to replace is the recoil spring and the take down lever. In all fairness, I have had to replace close to 25 takedown levers on our Sigs. Recoil just beats on them until the rivet pops lose and the take down lever spins free…

    Stay safe...

  6. #6
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    Feb 2011
    Location
    Rockville, MD
    Quote Originally Posted by frankepc View Post
    Anybody know what parts are required to change from standard DAO to the DAK system?
    Unless your frame is DAK-compatible, you cannot. Otherwise, you need to change a handful of parts including the trigger bar and hammer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gadfly View Post
    I shot our qual course with both and score 98 to 99% with both pistols... No real difference except having to remember to de-cock with one...
    Assuming it's the qual course I'm thinking of (250 points?) the times are very generous especially past the initial contact-distance part. I wouldn't expect the benefits of the DA/SA to show themselves under such easy time constraints. If you're consistently in the 240's then I'm willing to bet you're beating the PAR times by a significant margin already anyway, especially when you're given 20sec at 25yd.

    In all fairness, I have had to replace close to 25 takedown levers on our Sigs. Recoil just beats on them until the rivet pops lose and the take down lever spins free…
    In all the years I worked at SIG, I saw that only once on one of my guns, a P229 in 357 with somewhere between 13k and 14k through it. The exact notes I took when it happened:takedown lever loosened (lever and cylinder no longer move as single unit)
    lever rotated 45deg clockwise during shooting, causing the top front edge to dig into the slide just forward of the takedown notch; result was that the slide was completely locked in place and could not be moved forwards or backwards by hand even with significant force; only fix was to take a small hammer and bang the lever back into normal position


    I filed a report in accordance with our ISO procedures regarding the failure but my boss (who is still with the company) instructed me to retract it. That was in January of 2006. Within a couple of years, the problem became so widespread the company considered a complete recall. There is absolutely no reason that part should behave that way. For years it worked fine. The version your agency tested worked fine. But SIG changed the company sourcing the part and the rest is unfortunate history.
    Donate to Rampage For The Cure!
    Todd Louis Green, pistol-training.com Train hard & stay safe!
    "Speed is the essence of war."
    Sun Tzu | Sometimes the fastest way to get fast is to go faster.

  7. #7
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    Jul 2011
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    Texas
    Assuming it's the qual course I'm thinking of (250 points?) the times are very generous especially past the initial contact-distance part.
    Yes Todd, it is the qual course you are thinking of. The times are VERY, VERY generous. I consider shooting a 245 having a bad day. I shoot IDPA with a stock gen 3 and gen 4 Glock 22. I am much faster with the Glocks, but given my options for duty carry, I feel very confident with the DAK. I must admit I now drink the "one-type-of-trigger-pull" kool aid. We have many shooters whine and complain about the DAK during transition, but most like it now. I actually prefer it to our old USP compact LEMs. There are perhaps a dozen who have purchased DA/SA for duty carry.

    Additionally, my duty back up is a G26. Since policy dictated that your primary and secondary weapon must both be DAO, or both DA/SA, I would have to give up my G26 if I switched to the Sig in DA/SA.

    We have about 225 Sig 229's and about 100 Sig 239's in my office. I have yet to replace parts on a 239. I have 17 broken take down levers in my tool kit. I threw away several before I started to save them. The other armorer in my office has replaced a few as well. When this problem was kicked up my chain of command, the response was to send me 50 new takedown levers with a note basically telling me to "replace as needed".... My pistol was one of the first batch issued nation wide, and one of the first to break between 3k to 4 k rounds. My frame is marked "Made in Germany" in '04. I attempted to find a pattern of breakage, but with guns marked “made in USA” from '06 to '08, some marked "made in the USA" on the frame, others "made in the USA" on the slide, the list is all over the place...

  8. #8
    #00
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    Feb 2011
    Location
    Rockville, MD
    Gadfly -- Origin of the frame is no indication of which revision takedown lever a gun has. Regardless of where the frame was manufactured, all your guns were assembled in the US with parts sourced by the US company. Your takedown levers could be made in Germany, the US, Canada, Israel, Indonesia, or anywhere else on the planet.

    Finding a G26-sized DA/SA backup that even had a chance of getting approved is probably snowball-in-hell probability. That's an interesting policy and not one I'd heard before.
    Donate to Rampage For The Cure!
    Todd Louis Green, pistol-training.com Train hard & stay safe!
    "Speed is the essence of war."
    Sun Tzu | Sometimes the fastest way to get fast is to go faster.

  9. #9
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    Jul 2011
    Location
    Texas
    Origin of the frame is no indication of which revision takedown lever a gun has.
    I was not sure if where it was assembled mattered or not. I checked out of curiosity, but there was no rhyme or reason I could find...

    That's an interesting policy and not one I'd heard before
    Yeah, primary and secondary pistols possesed by and individual must be in the same trigger configuration of both DAO, or both DA/SA. Interesting side note, all of the Glock 26s were supposed to be retired along with our Glock 19's when we went to Sig 229s and 239's a few years back. Nasty rumor is when all of our headquarters types went to the range to transition to the 239, there was such a dislike for the new pistol that the "approved pistol" list was re-written to grandfather in the Glock 26 so all the higher ups could keep the little pistol they liked. At least that is the "urban legend"...

  10. #10
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    Feb 2011
    Location
    Rockville, MD
    Not an urban legend.

    --
    Todd "Snopes" Green
    Donate to Rampage For The Cure!
    Todd Louis Green, pistol-training.com Train hard & stay safe!
    "Speed is the essence of war."
    Sun Tzu | Sometimes the fastest way to get fast is to go faster.

 

 

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