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Thread: Is a vehicle cover or concealment? It depends.

  1. #1
    Member cclaxton's Avatar
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    Is a vehicle cover or concealment? It depends.

    http://www.recoilweb.com/take-cover-...les-50323.html

    In shooting targets inside or through vehicles in IDPA matches, I have rarely found a round penetrates to the other side. Fragments will sometimes. Often the car becomes a bullet trap.

    What are the experiences here? I am primarily interested in discussion around use of pistols.
    Cody
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  2. #2
    Very Pro Dentist Chuck Haggard's Avatar
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    Depends on "cover from what?"

    Most handgun rounds? Yes, cars can give quite a bit of cover. And buckshot, fragmenting .223/5.56 rounds, .22 rifles, etc.

    Cars are far less cover against things like bonded/solid copper .308 bullets, high penetration 12 gauge slugs, designed to penetrate well 5.56 rounds and such.

    I have personally put 124gr +P Gold Dots and NATO ball through one side and out the other on the front doors of a Crown Vic, if the rounds are hitting perpendicular to the car.

  3. #3
    CrownVic worked for me once, against .223. Several rounds were stopped in the engine block area. Two or three penetrated the door but by that time I wasn't there.

  4. #4
    Site Supporter Hambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Haggard View Post
    Depends on "cover from what?"
    And which part of the car. Modern car doors have a lot of stuff in them: window parts, air bags, safety reinforcement bars. Thus we found that doors we literally hit or miss. Hit some junk and handgun rounds might not make it into the passenger compartment. Hit sheet metal and they went through. Windows, especially windshields, tore up bullets and caused some deflection, but we still got hits on targets inside. All of this is from a decade ago, but I would only rely on the engine block and firewall to be really good cover. The rest of the car is marginal to bad IMO.

  5. #5
    Site Supporter Lon's Avatar
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    We shot up a few cars last year at work for training purposes. I'll try to post some video if I can find it. Bottom line is, it just depends on a lot of variables specific to where the round hits on the car. Truck beds are not your friend unless the truck bed is full of stuff. I'll dig up my notes from last rear. We shot up a minivan, a ford ranger and a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Personally, the engine block is all I would trust for sure to stop bullets.
    Formerly known as xpd54.
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  6. #6
    Very Pro Dentist Chuck Haggard's Avatar
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    One of the things that I got to do a lot of early on was shoot up cars for fun. A high school friend's dad owned a junk yard, and it being in the county, and dad not caring if we shot up the cars that were going to be crushed, meant I got to put bullets into a LOT of cars. That was pretty educational.

  7. #7
    Site Supporter Lon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Haggard View Post
    That was pretty educational.
    This. We shoot up cars every few years. Any police agency that has never hauled cars out to their range and shot them up for their troops are negligent in their training, if you ask me. Being able to see it first hand is quite different from being told about it. Same with shooting from the inside of and into a vehicle.
    Formerly known as xpd54.
    The opinions expressed in this post are my own and do not reflect the opinions or policies of my employer.
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  8. #8
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    When I find myself taking cover behind a vehicle (usually a Crown Vic), I use the engine block. Every other part of the car falls under the category of "Depends". The thing is, if being shot at, I do not want to count on "Depends". Also the front tire gives a bit of cover and concealment to your feet. Otherwise, someone can skip rounds under the car, shoot out your feet/ankles, then shoot your head when you go down. Not a good thing...

    The only time I have ever been shot at while taking cover behind a vehicle was an unmarked SUV that a couple of our drug unit guys were driving. It's amazing how many people can squeeze behind an engine block given the appropriate motivation...

  9. #9
    Put me down for "concealment", engine block excepted.

    Most modern cars wont stop even pistol bullets, to say nothing of rifle rounds. The Ford Crown Vic /Lincoln Town Car/Mercury Grand Marquis is one of the last types of body-on-frame cars produced. Modern day cars on unibody frames dont have that much mass to play with. The Box o' Truth tested an old 80's Buick and found even .22LR would go through a cabin-a conclusion I verified in person when an acquaintance ND'd his XD carry gun ,putting a .45 through his leg and out the door of his '05 Nissan.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Beat Trash View Post

    It's amazing how many people can squeeze behind an engine block given the appropriate motivation...
    Also amazing how small you can make yourself when you need to.

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