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Thread: Beretta M92A1 Recoil Impulse-Wet Noodle Syndrome.

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by WilsonCombatRep View Post
    There is no mechanical reason or physical reason why a 92A1 would recoil any differently than a standard 92. Maybe remove the buffer and try again.
    That begs the question, CAN you "safely" shoot an M92A1 without the factory aluminum sacrificial buffer? The question could be better posed as follows:

    "Is the factory aluminum buffer essential to the operational cycle of the M92A1?".

    I know that you probably shouldnt answer that for liability reasons but i figured i would pose the question anyway.

  2. #22
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    Did the gun perform this way in stock form, before you changed the springs around?

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by JTQ View Post
    Did the gun perform this way in stock form, before you changed the springs around?
    Yes but i attributed the "issue" to my lack of familiarity with the system. I never just pick up a gun and get the sight tracking down immediately. It usually takes me between two and five thousand rounds to REALLY get the rhythm of the pistol. This however, is just...weird as the slide is reciprocating like nothing ive ever experienced.

    Ive got 1860 rounds through the gun and i am fighting this more than ive ever fought my Glocks, M&P's, CZ's or 1911's. Id like to try and figure out a solution as i do like what the gun has to offer in regard to trigger, ergo's parts availability and general cool factor. I shoot for fun and competition so the pistol is simply a toy that i want to play with.

  4. #24
    This is what I posted in my Centurion thread. Needs Elite/Vertec info to round out the picture.



    Today, I had a full up practice session using my Wilson tuned 92A1. It has a fantastic trigger and has been a primary shooter for me. Yet to have a stoppage in over 10,000 rounds. Gorgeous pistol.

    One drill my wife and I were doing is three eight inch steel from the draw at 13, 16 and 18 yards. Big wide transition between the 16 and 18 yard targets. My average time with the 92A1 was 2.75, with a 1.30 +/- draw and .70ish splits to the other two steel. My best time was 2.53. This was over about 20 runs.

    I decided to grab my carry Beretta, which is a very stockish Centurion with a front sighted painted orange with a Sharpie paint stick, Crimson Trace military laser grips (which I couldn't see in bright desert sunlight), and a Dave Olhasso trigger job. The trigger is good, but no better than my Wilson trigger on the 92A1 which is superb. My first run with the Centurion was 2.25, my next run was 2.23, and over 10 runs my average was 2.25 with a best run of 2.08 (.99 draw to the 13 yard steel, .66 and .43 splits to the two other steel). Same ammo for both pistols, PMC 115 ball.

    It seems conclusive to me that the Centurion length slide cycles better/faster than the full length Beretta 92 slide. At the end, I shot a quick three shot group on the head of an IPSC target at 25 yards, with what I had left in the magazine, and all three shots were in the upper A zone and could be covered by ONE paster. So it doesn't seem like the Centurion is giving up anything in practical accuracy.

    A Vertec G Centurion with a M9A1 style lower would be my holy grail of a combo carry/game pistol.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  5. #25
    Roger,

    This would jive in accordance of my general love of G17's versus G34's.

    I still think something else is afoot here so more testing on my end is required.

  6. #26
    I've never noticed my 92A1's recoiling any differently compared to my other 92's, but I'm not having the issues you are having either. When the slide goes back in to battery for me, once it locks up, the sights are right where they were before the recoil started (assuming I didn't screw my grip up somehow).

    Come to think of it, my 96A1 tracks just fine for me too, although I swear I can feel the bullet hit the feed ramp when it leaves the magazine, or something. I always figured it was just a Beretta .40 thing and didn't think too much of it.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Magsz View Post

    I find it hard to believe that i would need a lighter recoil spring given the only gun ive ever run a 9lb spring in was my 9mm 1911. I did however just order some lighter springs as i have nothing to lose and everything to gain.
    Somebody told me that Stoeger used 9 lbs recoil spring in his Elites. According to weight measurements done by Bill Wilson, 92A1 slide is not far off the Brig slide, so mebbe 9 would work out. I presume that recommendation to pump the slide with Slide Glide stems from a need to facilitate cycling when using such low weight spring.

    That said, I think this isn't the only issue. It may shoot better with 9, but I don't think it should absolutely require 9. I vaguely remember a work order from David Olhasso on those 4 or 5 guns GJM had sent him. One of them had some issue with a slide bind, I think. George, am I making it up, or my memory is simply amazing?

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by YVK View Post
    One of them had some issue with a slide bind, I think. George, am I making it up, or my memory is simply amazing?
    One did, but it had to do with mounting the slide and not cycling once together.

    OK, here is some raw footage shooting two Bill drills end of my session with an Elite II. Don't have the software to slow mo it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WKta3fBDnI
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  9. #29
    Youtube will actually do that for you in the editor. If you dont have a high enough native resolution and frame rate it will look horrific though.

  10. #30
    Site Supporter farscott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magsz View Post
    Its the return to battery bounce where you can see the muzzle dip and then kind of wobble in space. In my sight picture i will see the front sight dip to either 7 or 5, then rise to 10 or 2. The muzzle of the gun literally tracks like a figure 8 when the slide CLOSES and returns to battery. I have to fight this gun something fierce to drive my sights where i want them.

    The rearward movement is PERFECT, straight to the rear and up out of the notch. The slide, as it returns is also PERFECT in that it drops RIGHT into the notch but once the gun locks up, the muzzle wants to go all wet noodle on me.

    I traditionally set my guns up on the lighter side of things. Not quite as light as some guys using cut 10 lb springs in their shadows but usually in the 11 pound range for me. I prefer my sights to settle a hair OUT of the notch so that i can allow gravity to let the gun return to its original point of aim. The technique would be similar to riding the recoil.

    George, the 92A1 is the unique gun out of the mix which is why im really leaning towards hardware instead of software. I am the guy that NEVER, EVER looks at his hardware and always looks at the nut behind the wheel. In this instance, the gun seems to be bucking convention and is genuinely confusing me and the only variable here is the fact that i AM shooting a non standard, unique mechanism, ie a non "standard" lock up design. So, in essence, it could be both, hardware AND software but my buddies are all telling me the same thing, my gun (M92A1) is a gigantic wet noodle versus the M9A1 in our club.
    I am not a Beretta 92 shooter, but the same symptoms in a 9x19 1911 usually means the recoil spring rate is too high for the load. The muzzle dip is the extra closing force on the slide acting as a lever. IF this was a 9x19 1911, I would try a 9# spring to see if that reduces/alleviates the muzzle dip. One thing I have learned about 9x19 1911s that may be applicable is that each sample needs to be evaluated for the proper recoil spring for the load. I have several different 9x19 1911s and I run three different recoil springs in them for the same load. I wonder if the same phenomenon is at work with this pistol.

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