Beretta M92A1 Recoil Impulse-Wet Noodle Syndrome.

[Magsz]

Hey guys, im cross posting this from another forum because the Fudds were seriously driving me up the wall. I know we have quite a few engineers here and guys that actually you know...shoot their guns instead of re enacting die hard in their basements...

So, having said that. Please for the love of god, someone shed some light on what is going on here:

Ok...

So, guys, ive got some questions and i hope i clearly explain my issue.

First, the gun.

Beretta M92A1
Wolf 11 LB Recoil Spring
Wolf 19 LB 1911 hammer spring
Beretta Comp E2 Hammer
Hogue Extreme G10 Piranha Grips.
Grip tape on the front and backstraps.

Ammo:

147 Grain Bayou bullets 3.8 grains WST 130k power factor.
135 Grain Extreme RNFP 4.0 Grains WST 130k power factor
135 Grain Extreme N320 3.9 grains 130k power factor.

The gun is VERY hard to control and has a really weird "bounce" to it. My grip is not slipping and my wrists are only unlocking the teeniest amount. For whatever reason the gun "feels" like it is experiencing coil bind, ie the recoil spring is bottoming out on itself creating a whip like effect. The gun, and this is half of a joke, feels like im shooting a piece of spaghetti. I also suspect that perhaps the recoil buffer is basically getting pounded in the gun and may be accounting for part of the "wobble".

My friend insist that the M9A1 that we have in our little training club does NOT recoil like this BUT that gun is running a 12 lb recoil spring so i dont know if that could account for the difference.

Ive never shot a gun that tracks so poorly and im wondering what's up. Any thoughts in regard to this would be great! Thanks guys!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phXWJ6efXhE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pe3tY9mrcHY

Compared to my P09.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IlQfvFpZZE

[GJM]

Haven't wached the vids, as I have poor connectivity now. Wilson makes a Shok Buff thing for the 92 series. I am running one in my 92A1, and have the last 5,000 rounds.

Willshoot packed his Elite slide with the Enos goo, and along with a light spring, felt the sights were very easy to track.

[Steven T]

Watching some of your other video's, could the Wilson fluted guide rod be binding/interfering with the buffer in the frame or binding the spring? Could the guide rod be out of spec as far as size?

I've never looked at a 92A1 so I'm just making a wild guess. I have been thinking about picking one up so I'm interested in what you find. I've been following your posts and videos on both the Beretta and P-09 good stuff. I'll have one or the other shortly, probably both eventually. Just waiting to see what Beretta is bring out this month.

Good luck in diagnosing your problem.

[YVK]

I can't get the first video to play. Seems like excessive forward sight bounce to me. I would change a recoil spring just in case it is defective, and maybe try 9 or 10 lbs.
My two worthless cents.

[Magsz]

YVK

Actually, your opinions DO matter to me.

I find it hard to believe that i would need a lighter recoil spring given the only gun ive ever run a 9lb spring in was my 9mm 1911. I did however just order some lighter springs as i have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

George, when you get a chance, please watch the videos as they are pretty revealing in regard to there being a "problem". Im just not sure how to go about fixing it. I saw that Wilson has a buffer but ive never really had much luck with them. Ive run them in 1911's but i always preferred to run without.

I am going to grab my buddies M9A1 and give it a whirl as i really do think that the internal buffer in the 92A1 series is causing resonance issues.

Any other theories would be greatly appreciated.

[JV_]

Your first video isn't working

This video does not exist.

Sorry about that.

the gun "feels" like it is experiencing coil bind, ie the recoil spring is bottoming out on itself creating a whip like effect

FWIW: I've had aftermarket recoil springs that were too long in a 92. I know you're saying that it's a feel, but have you verified it's not happening? I'd mark the slide and frame with an index mark, at most rear ward point, and try it again without a spring.

[Clobbersaurus]

It may be camera angle but it looks like you are gripping the Beretta differently than the CZ. Your support hand index finger is wrapped under the trigger guard with the CZ, you have a more standard grip with the Beretta. This could be part of it. Just my uniformed opinion.

The bounce you are getting is fairly pronounced though, could your guide rod be binding the recoil spring somehow?

Those are great slow mo vids by the way.

[1986s4]

Do you have a stock 92 to compare it to?

[Magsz]

Let me know if this works guys. I will go ahead and edit the first post if i can.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phXWJ6efXhE

To answer some questions here.

JV, i did check for coil bind. The slide retracts to the same point with and without the spring. What i will say is that the slide retracts TO the frame buffer so it IS hitting it.

In regard to the grip, yes, it is slightly different by sheer virtue of the guns size necessitating a different grip. The 92 is significantly wider BUT the grip is pretty darned close.

I do NOT have a stock 92 BUT i am going to be bogarting the M9A1 that we have in our group and setting up as close to an Apple to Apples comparison as i can as this is really...REALLY bugging me and i want to get to the bottom of this. I know that no one can pick up a gun and expect to be at their peak performance level immediately but ive never experienced this much trouble with trying to learn how to track a recoil impulse. Even with a weak grip, medium grip, strong grip, left hand grip the muzzle just wobbles in space on every shot with a variety of ammo.

Ive shot Sigs and other "high" bore axis guns and no, while they DID have more muzzle rise than say a Glock, they did not experience the spaghetti shuffle like this gun does...

[JV_]

will go ahead and edit the first post if i can.

The 30' window passed, I fixed the link.