Speer Gold Dot G2 147 grain PT 9mm

[JBP55]

Wouldn't one of several avail FMJ 9mm loads deliver even more penetration?

Absolutely.

[GJM]

Wouldn't one of several avail FMJ 9mm loads deliver even more penetration?

Absolutely.

Not sure. It seems like many FMJ ball loads are economy loads, and don't necessarily penetrate better than JHP. Until you get to 10mm with hard cast, the Trophy Bonded or boutique penetrator loads, it doesn't seem like the makers have optimized ball for penetration in 9, 40 and 45.

[JBP55]

Not sure. It seems like many FMJ ball loads are economy loads, and don't necessarily penetrate better than JHP. Until you get to 10mm with hard cast, the Trophy Bonded or boutique penetrator loads, it doesn't seem like the makers have optimized ball for penetration in 9, 40 and 45.

I do not have any skulls to shoot but Gold Dot 124+P, HST 124+P, Gold Dot 147, HST 147 and HST 147+P did not compare to the penetration of the 124 NATO rounds fired into water jugs.
The JHP rounds all expanded big time and the NATO rounds looked like they did before firing. All rounds fired from the same G34.

[Wayne Dobbs]

While water testing is useful, to a limited extent, to get relative soft tissue performance, it's not always useful for hard barrier testing. And I think most of us would agree a brown bear skull would be a bit of a hard barrier! Ball ammo can get really erratic on hard surfaces, especially when it impacts at angles less then perpendicular. It glances off skulls of all types and windshields are another big issue for it too.

[JBP55]

While water testing is useful, to a limited extent, to get relative soft tissue performance, it's not always useful for hard barrier testing. And I think most of us would agree a brown bear skull would be a bit of a hard barrier! Ball ammo can get really erratic on hard surfaces, especially when it impacts at angles less then perpendicular. It glances off skulls of all types and windshields are another big issue for it too.

I do not carry a pistol with ball ammunition so that would not be an issue for me.

[JHC]

Not sure. It seems like many FMJ ball loads are economy loads, and don't necessarily penetrate better than JHP. Until you get to 10mm with hard cast, the Trophy Bonded or boutique penetrator loads, it doesn't seem like the makers have optimized ball for penetration in 9, 40 and 45.

I was thinking a NATO load from a good manufacturer or a boutique brand. The Buffalo bore FMJ flatpoints looked the part, they were hot. They didn't group well at 25 yds from a couple of my pistols though.

[GJM]

We had this discussion in one of the threads discussing service pistols around animals, which one I can't remember, about penetrating loads in .40. Chuck or Gary, as I recall, educated me that the common .40 ball loads are not properly constructed for penetration, and may not even do as well as a good JHP. That got me off on the KKM barrel and hard cast in the G22, which didn't pan out on account of unsatisfactory reliability.

The beauty of the G2 load, if it pans out, is you can carry a pistol in a caliber that is likely reliable and durable, while doing double duty -- good performance on softer targets, and the ability to get through a hard target if necessary.

From my anecdotal knowledge, a flat point seems better at penetration than a traditional ball load.

[JHC]

We had this discussion in one of the threads discussing service pistols around animals, which one I can't remember, about penetrating loads in .40. Chuck or Gary, as I recall, educated me that the common .40 ball loads are not properly constructed for penetration, and may not even do as well as a good JHP. That got me off on the KKM barrel and hard cast in the G22, which didn't pan out on account of unsatisfactory reliability.

The beauty of the G2 load, if it pans out, is you can carry a pistol in a caliber that is likely reliable and durable, while doing double duty -- good performance on softer targets, and the ability to get through a hard target if necessary.

From my anecdotal knowledge, a flat point seems better at penetration than a traditional ball load.

Roger all of that.

I'm fixing to send a few boxes of the Hornady Critical Duty 135 gr 9mm and their 180 XTP up to junior in AK just because. This G2 stuff in very cool.

[Rich]

While water testing is useful, to a limited extent, to get relative soft tissue performance, it's not always useful for hard barrier testing. And I think most of us would agree a brown bear skull would be a bit of a hard barrier! Ball ammo can get really erratic on hard surfaces, especially when it impacts at angles less then perpendicular. It glances off skulls of all types and windshields are another big issue for it too.

+1

A friend of mine was shot right in the knee dead center with 9mm 147gr HC Flat Point . The bullet slid behind the knee cap and continued straight down towards the back of his ankle were it came out.

[Rich]

If the 147 gr performs better, then why would someone want a 124 gr?

Because I don't care for the impulse the 147gr loads have in my P30S.

Strange I know.

One day I will get another Beretta or Sig? They seem to shoot softer for me.