"Carry" vs. "Combat" Handguns

[psalms144.1]

I'll try to go back to the OP's question WRT a "carry" gun and a "combat" gun. While I agree that risk assessment and mitigation are the best tools in the toolbox of any armed person (LEO, military or private citizen), the truth is, kitten happens. And kitten happens when you least expect or want it to. If we could predict when/where our Gun Fight was going to happen, we either wouldn't be there, or we'd be there in full kit, with belt-fed automatic weapon support, and a squad (or at least a fireteam) worth of hand-picked team mates.

I can't get into specifics, but I recently had the opportunity to talk at length with a number of guys who were involved in an Active Shooter response. I know all of them fair-to-middlin' well, and three of the five of them are, literally, guys I'd hand-pick from my agency to be with me if I thought I was going to my gun fight. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM was SIGNIFICANTLY kittened up, equipment wise, when the "go" light went off and they had to dance with the one that brung them. Two of them, because they were going to the range that day, had their "backup" guns on them with no spare magazines - they're "primary" pistols and all their magazines being left behind in their range bags either at the office, or in the car on-scene when they went to work. I could go on and on and on - and these are good, switched on, tactically minded guys.

The moral of the story is this. If you think your threat assessment skills are so good that you can "get by" with a carry gun only, you shouldn't need a gun at all, being able to avoid trouble in advance. If you need a gun, you need a REAL GUN, and, to some extent, capacity matters. Even more so, SHOOTABILITY matters. I know I can shoot a 298 or 300 with my PM9 when I work at it, but, if I need to shoot an El Prez, or a Bill Drill, that's NOT the pistol I want to use.

Now, I know there are compromises that we all make. Now that I live up North, it's a LOT easier to conceal a G19 and G26 with spare magazines on a daily basis, even in the summer. I know that there are lots of private citizens for whom the decision is a deep concealment gun or nothing, based on employment policies and what-not, but that's not what I'm addressing. What gets my goat is the idea that you can "get away" with just carrying a "little" gun, because you're going somewhere "safe." NOWHERE is safe. Not your Church, not your office, not the movie theater. When the monster(s) come through the door, I guarantee you will not, afterwards, say: "Gee, I wish I had a smaller pistol with less ammunition during that fight..."

As always, this is one man's opinion, and worth precisely what you paid for it.

Regards,

Kevin

[LSP972]

Jerry Miculek is an example of a shooter who can run probably any pistol ever made better then most folks. That is because most folks cannot match his training resources.

Perhaps. But the flaw in that theory is that Jerry was pretty close to as good as he is now back when I was shooting with him 35+ years ago… and his "training resources" at that time, according to Donnie, was impromptu targets at a garbage dump, and what ammo they could scratch out or "borrow".

Yet, Jerry managed to clean our clocks regularly with that 6" M-27. IOW, not to put too fine a point on it, I seriously doubt you (or most of the rest of us here) could get as good as he is regardless of how large our graphical curves, resources, or time might be.

.

[LSP972]

...the idea that you can "get away" with just carrying a "little" gun, because you're going somewhere "safe." NOWHERE is safe. Not your Church, not your office, not the movie theater. When the monster(s) come through the door, I guarantee you will not, afterwards, say: "Gee, I wish I had a smaller pistol with less ammunition during that fight..."

And that about covers it, I think. Beautifully stated, Kevin.

Thought processes like that used to get my goat, too…. along with having to endure the inevitable Rambo comments, et. al., ad nauseum. Retirement is a wonderful thing, along with the knowledge that all the years you spent trying to give some of your people a clue weren't entirely wasted… in that some of them paid attention, and a few actually used those skills and knowledge to survive their fight/fights.

The rest… well, they don't know what they don't know, they don't CARE, so they can eat cake as far as I'm concerned. God bless 'em.

.

[Hambo]

Getting back to NH Shooter's question, I carry my 92F even in the hot Florida summer. When it's not inside my waistband it's on my desk or the bedside table. My easy to carry but not too confidence inspiring .380 rides in my cargo pocket primarily so I can reach a gun while in the car.

[LittleLebowski]

Perhaps. But the flaw in that theory is that Jerry was pretty close to as good as he is now back when I was shooting with him 35+ years ago… and his "training resources" at that time, according to Donnie, was impromptu targets at a garbage dump, and what ammo they could scratch out or "borrow".

Yet, Jerry managed to clean our clocks regularly with that 6" M-27. IOW, not to put too fine a point on it, I seriously doubt you (or most of the rest of us here) could get as good as he is regardless of how large our graphical curves, resources, or time might be.

.

Pretty much what I thought, appreciate you sharing that.

[DocGKR]

Got to agree with OAK and several others above.

Quantity of shooting has a quality all of its own. When I've had the opportunity to shoot several times a week and fire off 25,000+ rounds in a year, I could do pretty well with any handgun I shot. Shooting in the 10-15,000 per year range range, I did best with my primary pistol, but still shot adequately with similar ones (ie. Glock and M&P). On years where it becomes hard to get close to even 5000 rounds fired, I struggle to maintain acceptable skill with just my primary pistol--forget doing anywhere near peak performance with other handguns. Keep in mind that most LE officers and military personnel rarely are able to get anything close to 5000 rounds of agency sponsored pistol training in a year and that would be the bare minimum to maintain skill with even one handgun system...

[Tamara]

Perhaps. But the flaw in that theory is that Jerry was pretty close to as good as he is now back when I was shooting with him 35+ years ago… and his "training resources" at that time, according to Donnie, was impromptu targets at a garbage dump, and what ammo they could scratch out or "borrow".

Yet, Jerry managed to clean our clocks regularly with that 6" M-27. IOW, not to put too fine a point on it, I seriously doubt you (or most of the rest of us here) could get as good as he is regardless of how large our graphical curves, resources, or time might be.

Yeah, I hate reading on the internet "Well, if I got all the practice ammo Jerry got..." ...then you'd still be you and he'd still be him.
There are probably people out there who've taken a lot more practice swings than Derek Jeter, too.

[Kyle Reese]

NOWHERE is safe. Not your Church, not your office, not the movie theater. When the monster(s) come through the door, I guarantee you will not, afterwards, say: "Gee, I wish I had a smaller pistol with less ammunition during that fight..."

As always, this is one man's opinion, and worth precisely what you paid for it.

Regards,

Kevin

Well stated, Kevin.

[ST911]

What gets my goat is the idea that you can "get away" with just carrying a "little" gun, because you're going somewhere "safe." NOWHERE is safe. Not your Church, not your office, not the movie theater. When the monster(s) come through the door, I guarantee you will not, afterwards, say: "Gee, I wish I had a smaller pistol with less ammunition during that fight..."

And yet legions of plain-clothes detectives and SROs will arm up with subcompact convenience guns. May fate spare them the consequence of their folly.

As always, this is one man's opinion, and worth precisely what you paid for it.

Good stuff.

[John Hearne]

Paul Howe made it a point to distinguish between too much caliber and not enough gun and I agree it is an important distinction. Very few people shoot a Glock 27 well but a lot more seem to be able to shoot a 26 or 22 acceptably.

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