Tactical training for the CCW holder

[GJM]

Exclude mil and LE training for this discussion.

Beyond technical shooting training, I am interested in discussing what tactical training the typical CCW gun owner should have. Source of the training, duration of the training, frequency of recurrent training, etc.

[Jay Cunningham]

Exclude mil and LE training for this discussion.

Beyond technical shooting training, I am interested in discussing what tactical training the typical CCW gun owner should have. Source of the training, duration of the training, frequency of recurrent training, etc.

That's a topic near and dear to my heart.

[KevinB]

Exclude mil and LE training for this discussion.

Beyond technical shooting training, I am interested in discussing what tactical training the typical CCW gun owner should have. Source of the training, duration of the training, frequency of recurrent training, etc.

I'll take a swing.

I've done a little bit of CQB and HR training, either Mil or LE based. Maybe 4-5 months worth - so honestly not a great deal comparably.
I find the CCW/Home Defense aspect to be very similar to individual LE training / Active Shooter training. Now most classes for the LE side will not let you in without creds.
It is very different when you are operating on your own, as opposed to a team - the tactics are different.

When you look for team training, a guy who has multiple years at the highest end of the spectrum is who I like (say 10 plus years in CAG, DEV, SAS, SASR, or JTF-2) operational experience, and relatively current experiences - as tactics have evolved while we have been fighting the GWOT.

Now while those are all great experiences - they do not translate 100% into teaching single shooter tactics.
Guys who do this best are usually not teaching on the net - covert folks who live in a 1 man world
(*I am sure there are some former agency guys who are teaching - but I don't know any) now a lot of the former SMU guys have at one time done this and there are a few guys that run classes in this - but initially I would look to a really checked out LEO - who has some SWAT time, but is focused in the patrol world. Why? because patrol LEO with pistol and flashlight mirrors pretty much what the armed civilian has. Also ensure their #1 goal is safety.

Clearing your house (you may need to enter - or make your way thru your dwelling to family) as a single shooter - do not look like a HR team rolling thru the home, nor does it look like a SWAT team clearing on a warrant (hopefully). Single person clearing is dangerous - you are your own backup -- you cannot see 360 at all times. You need to be given the opportunities both live and FoF to come to see the balances between safety and speed, and know when speed will give safety.

Jay had the opportunity to see me repeatedly botch 1 man entries on a LAV/Ken Hackathorn Low Light class -- why because I was on leave from Iraq, and I was thinking in a team environment - and not solo - so I entered like I would with a teammate or more - and Ken would go "Pow, Kevin you're dead" - as I'd either crash my corner - or only pie a portion.
I take a lot of time to re-train the brain, especially under-pressure, when all I had up to that point was 2-Infinity man entry experience.

I don't know if I would call it a training scar - as I see it more of a training deficiency.

Once you are comfortable with a few classes - then I would look to a Home Defense CQB class given by someone like Jason Falla (RedBackOne), or some of the other former SMU personnel.
* I like Jason, I've taken classes from him, and I've gone thru the door with him on live raids.

I view CQB training as an ideally refresher class every 6months for the homeowner -- starting off - I would try to do 2-3 classes in the space of 2 months.


Now after for why to look to a SMU guy to teach CQB even for civilian home defense
Outside of the SMU side of the Military where folks get to kick door turn left for months learning it - no one in the world gets the budget or the time to learn it that way.
Safety in a house is PARAMOUNT - there are a number of folks offering courses - and IMHO the VAST majority are NOT qualified to do it, as your life if yours and you only get one.
Do not ever sacrifice your safety, CQB is dangerous, so do not make it more, if you ever see someone ignoring rules, just walk away.

[GJM]

I'll take a swing.

I've done a little bit of CQB and HR training, either Mil or LE based. Maybe 4-5 months worth - so honestly not a great deal comparably.
I find the CCW/Home Defense aspect to be very similar to individual LE training / Active Shooter training. Now most classes for the LE side will not let you in without creds.
It is very different when you are operating on your own, as opposed to a team - the tactics are different.

When you look for team training, a guy who has multiple years at the highest end of the spectrum is who I like (say 10 plus years in CAG, DEV, SAS, SASR, or JTF-2) operational experience, and relatively current experiences - as tactics have evolved while we have been fighting the GWOT.

Now while those are all great experiences - they do not translate 100% into teaching single shooter tactics.
Guys who do this best are usually not teaching on the net - covert folks who live in a 1 man world
(*I am sure there are some former agency guys who are teaching - but I don't know any) now a lot of the former SMU guys have at one time done this and there are a few guys that run classes in this - but initially I would look to a really checked out LEO - who has some SWAT time, but is focused in the patrol world. Why? because patrol LEO with pistol and flashlight mirrors pretty much what the armed civilian has. Also ensure their #1 goal is safety.

Clearing your house (you may need to enter - or make your way thru your dwelling to family) as a single shooter - do not look like a HR team rolling thru the home, nor does it look like a SWAT team clearing on a warrant (hopefully). Single person clearing is dangerous - you are your own backup -- you cannot see 360 at all times. You need to be given the opportunities both live and FoF to come to see the balances between safety and speed, and know when speed will give safety.

Jay had the opportunity to see me repeatedly botch 1 man entries on a LAV/Ken Hackathorn Low Light class -- why because I was on leave from Iraq, and I was thinking in a team environment - and not solo - so I entered like I would with a teammate or more - and Ken would go "Pow, Kevin you're dead" - as I'd either crash my corner - or only pie a portion.
I take a lot of time to re-train the brain, especially under-pressure, when all I had up to that point was 2-Infinity man entry experience.

I don't know if I would call it a training scar - as I see it more of a training deficiency.

Once you are comfortable with a few classes - then I would look to a Home Defense CQB class given by someone like Jason Falla (RedBackOne), or some of the other former SMU personnel.
* I like Jason, I've taken classes from him, and I've gone thru the door with him on live raids.

I view CQB training as an ideally refresher class every 6months for the homeowner -- starting off - I would try to do 2-3 classes in the space of 2 months.


Now after for why to look to a SMU guy to teach CQB even for civilian home defense
Outside of the SMU side of the Military where folks get to kick door turn left for months learning it - no one in the world gets the budget or the time to learn it that way.
Safety in a house is PARAMOUNT - there are a number of folks offering courses - and IMHO the VAST majority are NOT qualified to do it, as your life if yours and you only get one.
Do not ever sacrifice your safety, CQB is dangerous, so do not make it more, if you ever see someone ignoring rules, just walk away.

Kevin, thanks for taking a swing at this. I find this topic very interesting, and moderators if you want to split it into a separate thread, that is fine by me.

A few thoughts.

1) My question was for the "typical CCW" person. I can't imagine 1 in 1000 cow folks would take 2-3 classes in a few months and then commit to a 6 month recurrent training schedule.

2) If a SME with extensive military and LE experience like you was repeatedly killed doing a simulated entry, I would say the average CCW person has NO business doing a one man entry. Call the police. And if that is not feasible, I would ingrain in them that they are likely to be killed and accept those odds going in in the 1 in a zillion percent chance they would need to do such a thing.

3) If we eliminate the one man clearing stuff, what tactical training does the typical CCW person need to go with their technical shooting skills?

[BJJ]

. 3) If we eliminate the one man clearing stuff, what tactical training does the typical CCW person need to go with their technical shooting skills?

I believe a very thorough answer can be found here:

http://ballisticradio.com/2013/05/14...0-may-12-2013/

[Alpha Sierra]

2) If a SME with extensive military and LE experience like you was repeatedly killed doing a simulated entry, I would say the average CCW person has NO business doing a one man entry. Call the police. And if that is not feasible, I would ingrain in them that they are likely to be killed and accept those odds going in in the 1 in a zillion percent chance they would need to do such a thing.

From what I read above, Kevin got nailed doing one man entries because he did them like he would do them as part of a team. In other words, he did it wrong.

Is clearing a house solo extremely dangerous? Sure. But it's even more so when someone does it using team tactics instead of tactics more appropriate to doing it alone.

So no, I don't agree with your conclusion.

[jetfire]

While the actual gun manipulations are a little dated, I strongly recommend Gunsite's 250 course for CCW holders who want to get a quality base of instruction; especially if they're not likely to ever take another class again. It covers a lot of the stuff that Kevin talked about, but does it from a "solo/armed civilian" POV, all the shoot house stuff the emphasis is on protecting yourself and not taking the kind of risks you would if you had backup.

[Drang]

Beyond technical shooting training, I am interested in discussing what tactical training the typical CCW gun owner should have. Source of the training, duration of the training, frequency of recurrent training, etc.

As much as s/he can budget time and ammo for.

Thing is, for the "typical" CCW holder that means hitting the range once a month, hopefully with a Range Officer who is willing and able to give a few pointers.

Now, the odds say that very few CCW holders are actually going to even skin their smokewagon (sorry, Tombstone was on cable last weekend) off the range, other than putting it away at home, so do they really need any advanced training?
Early in my career at The Salt Mines I mentioned that I was going to be assisting with an NRA Basic Pistol class at one of the local gun clubs that weekend; a guy on my crew, (who was WAANG, getting ready to head to the Sandbox) asked me what "fighting techniques" we taught? "Ground fighting? Retention?..."
"Dude, this is an NRA Basic class, for Joe and Jolene Sixpack, who just bought their first pistol, and maybe their kids! Some of the students are 'mobility impaired!'"

Thing is, advanced classes, if you can afford them, will certainly keep the interest up beyond "just hitting the range monthly" or even taking the same advanced class at the local range as an annual refresher. So, certainly, if a "Home Defense" "Vehicle Defense" or "CQB" class is available, these would be good.

*A "Tactical First Aid Class", with advice on what to put in your blow-out kit and where to get it, should certainly be high on the list.
*A lecture on their local gun laws, and maybe surrounding jurisdictions, should also be sought.

[Mr_White]

Great topic!

In my mind, I break this into a core set of material, and then what might be attended if someone wants to do more than the core. Organizing it is a little confounded by the blurred lines and relatedness of various elements of mindset, skills, and tactics, but, attempting to focus on tactics:

General self-protective tactics are going to be the backbone.

Ways to recover from initiative deficit - not in the context of ECQC mechanics, but rather in the outside-arms-length-pistol-fight context – so lateral movement while drawing and sneaky tactics of misdirection to create the opportunity to run or fight could be really good.

A post-shooting procedure that accounts for threats down but not out, additional threats, and mitigating danger from responding LE or other citizens could be really good.

Once you get beyond that, we are probably talking about more outlying events.

Some training in solo movement in a structure, oriented toward home defense, might be good.

Some training in the use of a flashlight, oriented toward threat ID/assessment and engagement, as opposed to navigation and searching, might be good.

Some training in defending from a seated position and from and within vehicles might be good.

My personal interest and focus in the last few years has centered around tactics involving spatial management. Some of this impinges into skills, but I conceptualize this cluster together: shooting on the move and at moving targets and on the move, management of shot angles to mitigate danger to bystanders, basic use of cover and the short-form solo maneuvers (flanking and overrunning, essentially) that can branch out of the use of cover by threats/defenders.

[JM Campbell]

Sounds like ECQC & AMIS would be a great start and refresher to this subject matter on a lot of levels.

Hopefully SN can way in on his experience.

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