Tactical training for the CCW holder

[Maple Syrup Actual]

Actually that's not true. What it shows is that Tom's guys do a good job of recognizing problems early that warrant a gun, getting their guns out before range closes, and hitting what they shoot at. If you can do that it never gets to an entanglement which is preferred.

It doesn't prove that robberies don't begin the way misanthropist suggested.

Well, I guess that's the plug for the gap in the data set.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Are we separating out the gun/fighting skills from the total strategic package? That give us a couple of pathways.

I took a course in military history from a major general in the Hungarian army who fled the '56 revolution. He starts with your grand strategy. That is for the civilian to stay alive. Then the strategic paths - avoid or fight as to which gives you the best outcome. Then the tactics in the situation you are in.

Tom's data and point is clearly relevant to the path that you could not avoid the fight. You recognize as Craig said when the situation merited the gun usage and Tom teaches you to do that well.

But the total beginner package also should try to get you to avoid that path but understanding victim selection, avoidance and flat out fleeing in terror - along with not being a steely-eyed dealer of death if you can. Thus, for the beginner - basics of gun usage (if we are talking firearms solutions) and these others avoidant tactics are the first lessons. Pragmatically, getting the beginner to go for H2H in a serious way probably won't appeal to the beginner. Who likes getting clobbered when you want to use your blast-o-matic?

I like serious FOF early on so folks learn to avoid or talk their ways out of things.

Here is a funny avoidance story. When I lived in Portland, we went to dinner in a funky part of town as that was the cool thing to do for ethnic foods. So the dinner breaks up. SE Portland is a one way grid. As I drive away, I stop at an intersection and out of a dive bar come two combatants, slugging each other. They fall on top of the car in front of my on the hood. The driver rolls down the window to say - Hey, what the ... are you doing? One combatant says - I will show you and proceeds to bash the other's noggin into the windshield repeatedly. Then, from the bar a horde of combatants charge out like a peasant mob after Frankenstein.

I notice that my stick shift as an R setting, such that I can flee. Which I do - the wrong way on the street but it is later and a U turn gets me down a side street. I might have gotten out my gat and side - Now all you just stop that.

But I avoided. Seriously, some folks in beginner gun class would actually think they should join the fray as they are ....

Since many of the TX gun handlers I know think they are innate great shots and fighters, they are reluctant to train - so can we get something into their heads in a small, doable package?

[Kyle Reese]

Are we separating out the gun/fighting skills from the total strategic package? That give us a couple of pathways.

I took a course in military history from a major general in the Hungarian army who fled the '56 revolution. He starts with your grand strategy. That is for the civilian to stay alive. Then the strategic paths - avoid or fight as to which gives you the best outcome. Then the tactics in the situation you are in.

General Bela Kiraly?

[jlw]

I would also submit that the probability of a cop getting into a fight like the one described is far greater than Joe Citizen. Mr Citizen never has to get close enough to a bad guy to put handcuffs on him, has no duty to approach a BG, or stay where a potential BG is when he is identified as a potential bad actor. A police officer often has to do all of those things, often by himself.

The fight initiating during handcuffing has a couple of components to it. The first is shoddy handcuffing technique. The second is initiative deficit. In the cop's mind, the encounter at that point is resulting in the suspect being cuffed. When the suspect fights, the officer's OODA loop gets reset, and he/she is behind the initiative curve. This is the analogous to what Tom teaches about the sidestep. The perp's mind has the encounter ending by his getting paid only to be faced by a WTF moment when the intended victim suddenly isn't standing in the same place and incoming fire is directed towards said perp.

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In reference to the Tactical Conference, I hear tell that there will be a block on judgmental shooting. It's being taught by a couple of podunk GA cops though.

[KevinB]

Not necessarily CCW related but for armed citizens in general, was wondering how folks prioritized long gun training? I am in a fairly urban area and would love to own numerous rifles and shotguns, but as a very budget conscious person (aka broke) feel that spending most of my money and time concentrating on pistols, hand to hand skills, and fitness would be much more worth my efforts.

I know that long guns are more effective and easier to get accurate hits with but it seems that the opportunities to use them will be so rare for the average joe that it isn't worth taking away from the building other skills that the other folks here have mentioned.

A carbine requires far less training and practice to be useful than a pistol. Therefore becoming and remaining proficient with a carbine is not going to double your training budget.

Frankly - as someone who loves long gun training -- for the average civilian in an urban setting, barring massive social economic upheaval - I don't see long gun training as cost effective.
If you have a carbine - great, I think every able bodied person should own one (or more) - but when it comes down to it - odds are IF you will need a gun, it's a handgun -- handguns are harder to shoot than carbines - and the benefits of handgun trainings - is the trigger control will help carbine shooting, while most carbine shooting hurts pistol shooting...

I'm kind of a hypocrite when it comes to this - as I shoot probably 3-4x carbine than I do pistol, but mainly as I do rifle stuff for my day job - and pistol is something I fund myself...

[Mr_White]

Actually that's not true. What it shows is that Tom's guys do a good job of recognizing problems early that warrant a gun, getting their guns out before range closes, and hitting what they shoot at. If you can do that it never gets to an entanglement which is preferred.

It doesn't prove that robberies don't begin the way misanthropist suggested.

I see what you are saying and you are right. I guess what I was speaking to was more the near-total lack of injury suffered by his students, as opposed to actually getting socked in the face with a hard object like misanthropist described. But you're right, that doesn't speak to the ways they start.

[cclaxton]

Here is the info on the Tactical Conference. There is no better bang for your buck and you can sample the training of two dozen instructors from all over the country.

The 13th annual Tactical Conference will be conducted over three days: February 20-22, 2015 (Friday through Sunday). This prestigious event will be held at the excellent facilities of the Memphis Police Department Training Academy. There will be classroom seminars, hands-on training segments, and a live-fire tactical pistol match scheduled over all three days. The Academy has multiple classrooms and multiple live-fire ranges, which will allow for live-fire blocks of instruction running current with the defensive pistol match and the classroom lectures. Participants may attend as many training blocks as time permits. All training segments, the pistol match, and a prize drawing are included in the entry fee. There are no other costs/fees.

The pistol match involves realistic scenarios and reactive mannequin targets that only fall when struck with solid, vital-zone hits. Target identification and discrimination are involved, along with shooting under stressful and realistic conditions. Only daily carry street guns and gear are allowed, and you will need about 100 rounds of ammunition.

The 2015 Tactical Conference will feature an impressive list of trainers. So far, the faculty roster includes John Farnam, Massad Ayoob,Tom Givens, Southnarc, Paul Sharp, Steve Moses, Wayne Dobbs, Darryl Bolke, Karl Rehn, John Hearne, Chuck Haggard, Jim Higginbotham, Dr. Martin Topper, Andrew Branca, John Murphy, William Aprill, and many more—over twenty trainers in all. This is a rare opportunity to take part in knife, empty-hand, handgun, emergency medical, and tactics training all in one location. The entry fee of $299 represents the best value for your training dollar in the entire industry. This event fills early every year, as space is strictly limited. So it’s best to register as early as possible to avoid disappointment.

Go to rangemaster.com to register.

I am registered. I may be way out of my league, but I don't want to miss learning what I can from this fantastic list of trainers. If anyone else from Northern Virginia is willing to rideshare, let me know via PM.
Cody

[GardoneVT]

Applied skill is necessary, to be sure. A handgun is worse then useless without skill on the part of the user.

That being said, I personally hold that an individual should be trained to ID a threat . When a thug attempted to carjack me , he didn't send me a text message first as courtesy notification. I picked up his presence in a strange area of the parking lot, and at that moment he started turning ten yards to three. At the three yard mark I'd made up my mind to draw and take cover in front of the hood of my car once he presented a weapon, I placed my car key in the drivers side lock, and cleared my jacket to acquire my pistol.

At that point Mr Thug realized what was going to happen next, and accomplished the fastest right face I've ever seen in person. I shudder to think of how that would have turned out if I'd had my head in my smartphone reading ESPN highlights.

Being a great shot at fifty yards is well and good, but you're toast if the thug IDs you before you ID him.

[Tamara]

BOKs? LOL.....who the hell walks around with any first aid kit, let alone one that is useful to treat bullet holes when they go about their typical civilian day armed? And wtf good does it do to know how to treat bullet holes when you don't have what you need to do it? Giving first aid to someone who you just shot for assaulting you?

I think you misunderstand my reason for keeping a kit in my car/range bag/Maxpedition. It has nothing to do with any kind of fantasy gunfight.

[HeadHunter]

FWIW, here is my task analysis for The Armed Citizen Jan - Jun 2014. Yes, yes, I know it's anecdotal but so is everything else pertaining to civilians. At least mine has some semblance of organization and record keeping to it.

Retrieve from Storage (handgun) 32%
Move safely from place to place at ready 22%
Draw to shoot 20%
Challenge from ready 15%
Intervene in another's situation 15%
Draw to challenge 12%
Engage from ready (handgun) 12%
Hold at gunpoint until police arrive 12%
Retrieve from Storage (unknown) 10%
Shoot with non-threats downrange 10%
Draw to ready (seated in auto) 7%
Engage multiple adversaries 7%
Challenge with non-threats downrange 7%
Shoot menacing animal 7%
Shoot in midst of others 7%
Draw to ready 5%
Struggle 5%
Retrieve from Storage (shotgun) 5%
Draw pistol from wife's purse 2%
ID with flashlight 2%
Shoot animal from grounded position 2%
Shoot with shotgun 2%
Retrieve from Storage (rifle) 0%
Reload 0%

I'll post an analysis of things that went wrong in a day or two. As a hint, there's nothing about caliber, type of pistol, ammo capacity, spare ammo, or marksmanship prowess in there. Surprise, surprise, surprise!