Tactical training for the CCW holder

[SouthNarc]

I assume LEO's and Mil-Combat guys have to pass a test show proficiency, etc. So...


1) Are there any established standards for CCW skills? (I am not talking about State requirements to get a permit)
2) Are there any tests or qualifiers for CCW? (Again, not asking about permit requirements...skills.)

Usually not unless it's a progressive agency

I am not so much asking about shooting and marksmanship (although that applies), but all the other stuff: Force on Force, Hand to Hand, Indoor Tactics, Outdoor Tactics, Gun Disarms, Mental Disciplines, Decision-making, Knife attacks, etc.

Thanks,
Cody

Other than what is called "defensive tactics" in L.E......No. There is no standard for all of the other stuff.

[SouthNarc]

Does "sport MUC" count?

It does! And check your pocket for a rock!

[Glenn E. Meyer]

We have moved somewhat away from the OP on what the typical CCW type needs or wants. By the time we get to going to Tom's or taking SN's course - we are into the realm of the dedicated. If we care? Do we? Is there a minimally acceptable curriculum for the person with a LCP in their pocket or purse?

[orionz06]

Are we really that far away? I would argue that training for the greatest deficit would have some value and merit consideration.

The average gun toting guy or gal maybe doesn't need to dedicate their life to it but we should probably have a response for that particular possibility.

[SouthNarc]

By the time we get to going to Tom's or taking SN's course - we are into the realm of the dedicated.

Totally agree Glenn.

Is there a minimally acceptable curriculum for the person with a LCP in their pocket or purse?

I think there could be but since I don't deal with that kind of gun person regularly I probably don't have a truly informed opinion.

I can certainly relate to the difference between in-service police officers who MUST attend a block of training and a copper paying on his on dime.

But...I don't know. Never done state level basic CCW.

[rob_s]

Are we really that far away? I would argue that training for the greatest deficit would have some value and merit consideration.

The average gun toting guy or gal maybe doesn't need to dedicate their life to it but we should probably have a response for that particular possibility.

Seems to me that we jumped off the cliff on the first page. Unless the OP was asking the question wrong. The entire discussion seems to have had nothing whatsoever to do with the average CCW holder.

Which is fine, as that title probably doesn't apply to the intelligentsia here, but it's not what the words he originally wrote asked for.

[Biddy]

"It is amazing what we can pull from the memory banks in a crisis" -- nyeti

I would add, "...if our minds are free to do so."

I'm on time constraints at the moment, but if I had to say that one single thing is most critical to deliver to private citizens, it would be this:

Obliteration of accepted reality.

When a defender fails, whether it is an SA miss, a freeze, a knee jerk response to a bad read (reference SN's 'autistic brother' scenario), etc, I suspect that the culprit is a preconceived notion so ingrained that the defender is trapped in it.

--RBid/Biddy


If you don't carry it every day, it's not every day carry.

[orionz06]

Seems to me that we jumped off the cliff on the first page. Unless the OP was asking the question wrong. The entire discussion seems to have had nothing whatsoever to do with the average CCW holder.

Which is fine, as that title probably doesn't apply to the intelligentsia here, but it's not what the words he originally wrote asked for.

Is it the average CCW holder, the ideal CCW holder, or the average P-F.com member? It seems to be floating back and forth to make the responses work.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

Well, take this for what it's worth, which is: thoughts from a non-inner-circle PFcommer, a Canadian, and a guy who spends twenty times as much time on tactics as on technical shooting skills:

I remember the original question being something about "what skills should a typical CCWer have/type and frequency of training etc"

I just drank a bacon ceasar so I'm overly confident and am going to say what I actually think is the answer to this question.



IMO, if you carry a gun, you need to be able to put rounds on target at close range but not much more. If I could only see one or the other, I'd rather see people shooting confidently from retention at contact range than expertly on a 3x5 at 25 under ideal conditions.

Before you put rounds on target you need to access your gun, and you're not doing that until things have gone pretty wrong - which quite possibly means there's someone on top of you, kicking your ass. So you need the boxing and grappling skills to manage the beating you may well take, and either get to your gun, or protect it from your assailant while you utilize other options.

Before you take that beating, you need the de-selection/de-escalation skills of managing encroachment problems before they become contact problems. So you have to have the combination of verbal and mental wherewithal to project enough force on approaching predators that they select easier meals.




That's why I tell everyone to take ECQC. Honestly, although I like high-skill shooting...I don't think it's especially critical for 99% of situations. I think a guy with 12 months of boxing and jujitsu and 6 hours of pistol fundamentals could eat the lunches of the overwhelming majority of assailants. I think a guy with 12 months of pistol training and 6 hours of boxing and jujitsu could provide a very good pistol and wallet to most assailants.


So that is my answer to the original question. A typical CCWer should focus on developing skills that involve coping with getting punched in the head or outflanked at a gas station by a guy who bottles you as his friend distracts you.

[Mr_White]

I agree with you guys, it seems to me that we are clearly discussing a highly dedicated practitioner here.

As to an answer for the actual typical (read: non-dedicated) person who maybe sometimes carries a gun, I invoke the ideas of Claude Werner.