One of the best recommendations for any test is that it works--ie it fairly accurately replicates the things in the real world for which you are testing. It sounds like the 4LD test does precisely that.Originally Posted by Chuck Haggard
One of the best recommendations for any test is that it works--ie it fairly accurately replicates the things in the real world for which you are testing. It sounds like the 4LD test does precisely that.
Some times you get lucky and your test ends up having a very high correlation with the real world. The "big thing" is that the correlation is strong with the real world. If we could a higher correlation by shooting bullets into Breyer's chocolate ice cream then I'd care about the ice cream test.
- It's not the odds, it's the stakes.
- If you aren't dry practicing every week, you're not serious.....
- "Tache-Psyche Effect - a polite way of saying 'You suck.' " - GG
That wouldn't be a test, it would be a crime against humanity.
All the head shots I've seen make it a moot point if poa is good. But to the op: I'd recommend doing your own test for the way people dress in your part of the country.
Where I live in FL, I don't give alot of weight to the fbi test.
Why not?
The incident that started the FBI down the path towards modern ammo testing happened in Miami.
Just sayin.
Probably because they want to mimic what people are actually wearing in Miami. So, I suppose the real question for Miami Beach itself, is whether one layer of either (1) premium fair-trade, organically grown cotton or (2) lycra will have a much different effect on a modern hollow point than the standard 4LD?
My guess is that it won't, and it will end up penetrating around the same amount of gelatin with the bullet looking pretty much the same.
The tests might cost a bit more, however, given the cost of premium fair-trade organically grown cotton t-shirts.
The 4LD test is NOT designed to simulate any type of clothing--it is simply an engineering test to assess the ability of a handgun projectile to resist plugging and robustly expand.
Facts matter...Feelings Can Lie
Which is likely why almost all of the no clothing being hit shots in our OISs still resulted in bullets that look like they were pulled from the 4LD testing.
Doc: Not arguing with you at all and it is obvious that the test does a good job of replicating the real world, but didn't the original idea for the 4LD come from the fact that a lot of the old-time hollow points were observed to be clogging on clothing (as well as other materials)?
In other words, the resulting engineering test used a material that was known to clog hollow points.
Thus, it strikes me that if there was any reason to believe that my fanciful example of one layer of organic free-trade cotton would clog modern hollow points that wouldn't clog with 4LD then one might question the suitability of the engineering standard for the purpose at hand--ie: stopping actual people before they can hurt someone.
Of course, based on the information from people like you and Chuck, there is no reason to think that using a different type of fabric in the testing would change the results in a material way. 4LD works.
However, if hollow points routinely clogged on the clothes that people actually use but not on 4LD, I would think while the engineering standard would still be valid as an engineering standard used for comparison purposes, it would be far less useful as a predictor of how a bullet would likely perform in an actual shooting. One of the great things about the current test is that from all appearances it does both.
Uh, perhaps that is why different types of material and different thicknesses were tested until one (4LD) was found that correlated with real world events...
Facts matter...Feelings Can Lie
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