Snub .38 ammo choices/thread move

[Moonshot]

I'm still loading my 642 with SBGD 135gr rounds. They are affordable (when you can find them) and not too hard to shoot. I've tried the DPX rounds, but they are significantly more expensive (like around $1 per round, or more), and 110gr just seems too light.

WCs are great - easy to shoot and accurate, and I used to load them in my 642 when I carried it as a second gun (to be given to my wife in an emergfency), but I worry they may be too slow. If they were truly a viable self defense round they would be more popular with the experts.

The 158gr standard pressure BB would seem to offer it all, but for that very reason I don't trust the advertising.

Finally, I tend to lean to carrying a round which is in widespread use by LE. For snubby revolvers, that seems to be limited to the SBGD.

[TR675]

Well, not that anyone needs me to speak for them, but WC's seem to be reasonably popular with Doc, Tom, Chuck and LSP - so that's at least two board SME's and probably 80 years of cop experience... .

I'm sitting on a stack of 135 GD's but when those run out I've got some food for thought.

[Rich]

While shopping for WCs I noted that Black Hills has a gel test shot on both their JHPs and their WC ammo, which I thought was kind of neat.

http://www.black-hills.com/shop/new-...mo/38-special/

Thanks Chuck

[Moonshot]

Good point on the qualifications of those individuals. I've read many of their posts, particularly the Doctor's. Perhaps I have mis-read them, but I was always under the impression that WCs were a viable choice if one was a) recoil sensative or b) carrying an older non +p rated snubby.

I thought I read that the other rounds mentioned (particularly the SBGD and the DPX) were still the "better" choice (assuming it was available in sufficient quantity for practice and it was accurate in your firearm).

If I am wrong, or if I came across as minimizing their experience and opinion, I apologize.

[Rich]

A few days ago I launched a Remington WC from my 642 through four layers of denim and a 18" block of FBI spec gel, it went down range into the berm hard enough to kick up dirt.

I'm carrying WCs in one of my 642s, my last six DPX rounds in the other. Tom Givens told me he has gone back to WCs in his BUG, a Colt Cobra.

I've only seen to WC shootings, one a fatal, the other was through a dude's arm. Tom tells me he has seen enough of them that he doesn't worry about carrying WCs.

One of the real issues with "what ammo?" in a snub is if it shoots to your sights. I really like the Gold Dot, but it doesn't shoot to the sights on any of my snubs.

Is it true that the Rem 148WC isn't loaded flush with the case. For some reason I prefer the WC flush with the case. Like Federal/Win. I think they do that for the S&W 38spl pistol I forgot the model#

My favorite handload 2.7grs of bullseye + 148gr HBWC seated flush.

[Rich]

Well, not that anyone needs me to speak for them, but WC's seem to be reasonably popular with Doc, Tom, Chuck and LSP - so that's at least two board SME's and probably 80 years of cop experience... .

I'm sitting on a stack of 135 GD's but when those run out I've got some food for thought.

You can always use the 135 GD for your speed strip and loaders.

That's what I do except use 130gr PDX1 bullet /Ranger B

[Rich]

Black Hills WC are extremely smokey in my experience, almost like shooting black powder. The Buffalo Bore is much better in that respect and lower flash as well.

I know there cowboy loads are smokey . Are you sure the 148gr load is?

[LSP552]

Well, not that anyone needs me to speak for them, but WC's seem to be reasonably popular with Doc, Tom, Chuck and LSP - so that's at least two board SME's and probably 80 years of cop experience... .

I'm sitting on a stack of 135 GD's but when those run out I've got some food for thought.

Add the taller LSP to the list and another 34 years.

I'm using Remington WCs in my 642/442, having switched back from the Hornady 110 gr. Critical Defense and Gold Dots. Reduced recoil in the Airweight and POA/POI were my reasons.

[LSP972]

Finally, I tend to lean to carrying a round which is in widespread use by LE. For snubby revolvers, that seems to be limited to the SBGD.

Hardly. Most cops (those that have one, that is) will load their snubby with whatever is given to them by their agency, or, lacking that, whatever is cheapest at Academy or Wal-Mart.

The Gold Dot "short barrel" loads are for the enthusiast and/or switched-on cop who is paying attention to such things. I carry them in my snubby, and provide them to my girls for theirs. And I am not concerned about how many layers of denim or whatever they may or may not penetrate with expansion following... because it simply really doesn't matter WHAT .38 Special cartridge you shoot out of a two inch or 1 7/8 inch barrel; it isn't going to do much more than punch a hole.

LSP552 actually USED his snubby once to convince a drug dealer that his intention to do a rip instead of a sale was a real bad idea. I don't remember exactly what round he was carrying back then, but whatever it was it took the fight right out of the dude; immediately.

My point here is, LSP552 has first-hand experience regarding the limitations of a snubby... and if he is content with using target wadcutters in his personal carry snubby, that says a lot. Ditto Tom. Now that I think about, all the shootings I helped investigate,when I was doing that sort of thing, were either semi-auto calibers, full-house .357s, or shotguns.

Without dragging this on too far, my personal conviction is that snubby ammo is not as important as "duty" ammo... because the snubby will, more than likely, be employed at bad breath range and not directed with a great degree of accuracy. But if you must have the latest/greatest HSLD stuff, I don't see any problem with the 135gr +P "short barrel" Gold Dots. When I eventually run through my supply of these, I may start using some plebian 148gr target wadcutters myself.

.

[Moonshot]

Apparently I have stepped on a bunch of toes in this thread. That was certainly not my intention.

I had always believed the SBGD 135gr +p .38 was the most commonly issued snubby round authorized or provided by LE agencies, either for BUG or off duty carry. I guess I was misinformed.

I had also believed this same round was in the top tier of recommended snubby loads, along with the 110gr DPX and the 110gr CD, while the WC rounds were recommended only if recoil was an issue or if the gun was not strong enough to handle a +p loading.

As for the old FBI load (158gr +p SWCHP), I believed these rounds were also no longer recommended. It's not that these or the WCs were bad choices, just that there were better choices available.

Believe me, I wish I could carry the 148gr WC with confidence - they are easy to shoot in my 642 and very accurate. My wife and daughters also have no issues shooting them. I have no problems with the +p Gold Dots, but the WCs are just easier. Again, I don't think the WC is a bad choice. I just thought there were better options out there.

I don't know why there seems to have been a number of posts recently showing a lack of expansion for the SBGD out of a sub-2" barrel. Not a lot of posts, but enough to make me wonder if the juice is worth the squeeze. WCs would make things much simpler, but only if they were a vialble self defense option. I took a snubby class last summer and I asked my instructor about the SBGD vs WCs and he told me two things - the SBGD was under powered and he could pull the bullet and load it to 900 to 950 FPS out of my 642 (with no damage to the gun) and WCs were way too slow. The concept was great, but they too needed to be juiced up.

I don't know if the extra weight of the WC compensates for the extra speed of the SBGD. If both fail to expand and both penetrate to similar depths, does it make a difference? Does the extra juice of the SBGD allow it to penetrate intermediate barriers better than the slower WC, and does this make a difference? These were my questions, and believing the SBGD was still the better choice led me to my earlier conclusion.

As for the members on this forum with significant experience, no disrespect was intended. If they carry WCs in their airweights, that makes me question my earlier assumptions. I do in fact rely on the opinion and advise of those who have the experience (as I do not). Perhaps my reading between the lines of the numerous posts addressing this subject was incorrect, and I took away the wrong information. It wouldn't be the first time.