It patterned very nicely out of my Ithaca Deerslayer.Originally Posted by LHS
Any luck with patterning the Rio #1 buck? I notice that SGAmmo and Ables still have some, and I just happened to pick up a vintage Wingmaster 20ga youth model with a 20" barrel
The first indication a bad guy should have that I'm dangerous is when his
disembodied soul is looking down at his own corpse wondering what happened.
The shotgun, in my opinion, is a universal equalizer. It is easy to train, easy to use, politically correct around the world, versatile by virtue of the ammunition it can use, and effective. And the thing is - it's effective in various sizes too. Which makes it a globally useful gun if you're some place where you can't access 12-gauge for various reasons.
Of course way before I got here smart people made the points on cost and utility, but I will share an anecdote. About a 8 years ago now, I was working for a retailer. We were closing up shop and my wife (then girlfriend) was waiting to pick me up. As she waited a store employee came out and was arguing with his girlfriend. The incident got heated and the guy hits his girlfriend. My wife called the cops and served as a witness. Next thing I know this guy is telling me my wife better "watch out", because he was a manager and knew when I was working. Being a poor college kid at the time I had only two .38 revolvers. I took her shooting but she lacked confidence and skill to feel comfortable with the handgun. So a few days later we bought her a Remington 870 Youth gun, a flat of 20-gauge birdshot, a few boxes of #3 buck, and a box of clay pigeons. A friend joined us at the range the next day and after a few hours of dusting flying clays, sitting clays, doubles (!), rolling rabbits, and then some work on steel and silhouettes with buck, she had found "her" gun. I stuck a butt cuff on the end and loaded it with more buck, taught her basic loading skills, combined with a slide back through the port reload. She practiced for a few hours with dummy shells.
In less than 12 hours of practice and training, my wife had skills necessary to drop a bad guy within the 12-yard max distance inside our home, I knew that. AND it didn't cost us an arm and a leg. The grand total for a new shotgun, ammo, and range time ran about 350 bucks. She still practiced twice a year in Texas, mostly clay shooting, and is a great shot with a shotgun, even bigger 12-gauge autoloaders and the like. The bottom line is, why shotgun? Because inexpensive, easy to train, FUN and easy marksmanship training with clay pigeons and other targets, and effective.
-Rob
PS: The idiot who hit his girlfriend went to jail for domestic assault and was fired. I was told, that our friend who went shooting with us, casually mentioned the day after to another worker, within earshot of domestic abuse asshole, "Man, Rob's girlfriend sure can shoot her new shotgun well!"
I use a Remington 870 for HD. It sits in the corner with Magpul stock and fore end, Surefire X300, Magpul MS2 sling, Mesa side saddle, and a fiber optic site. It is loaded with #4 buckshot, with 00 buck and slugs on the side. I have occasionally run it with a 26" barrel for the sound concerns mentioned earlier; my HD plan involves calling 911 and shooting anything that comes through the door without a badge, so the barrel length is likely not an issue. Today it sits with 18.5" though.
While I could have an AR in NY, it would be limited to 10 rounds, and it would look like this (or a lot worse):
It might be a better weapon, but I don't shoot trap and skeet with it, and it only holds 4 more rounds than my 870. And if it was displayed to a jury, it would be a terrible assault rifle, though my shotgun probably doesn't look much more appetizing to the sheep given all the Magpul.
Plans are in the work to move to a free state. At that time, I will probably gift this shotgun to a responsible friend staying here, behind enemy lines, and pick up an AR-15 and a suppressor. I will take carbine classes and get as effective with the carbine as I am with the handgun and shotgun now. However, in my current circumstance, I just don't see the value in buying a weird and/or neutered AR and spending time and money becoming efficient with it, for a marginal if any improvement over the 870 I am already good with.
Remove the political BS out of the equation, and it becomes a lot more black and white in my opinion. The shotgun then feels like the revolver to me; probably better for people with minimal training or motivation who want to have a gun in the house.
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Stuck with stupid laws I would go that same route. I have a fondness for my 590s over the 870, but that's personal preference.
I am the owner of Agile/Training and Consulting
www.agiletactical.com
Well, I broke down and ordered 250 rounds of the Rio 20ga #1 buck. Should be here in a week or so.
I've got a pair of 20ga shotguns to test it in, and I think it'll be an interesting comparison. One's my old early-90s-vintage 870 Express that was fully slicked out by Wilson Combat, the other is a 1954-vintage Wingmaster youth model that looks like Little Johnny's First Riot Gun.
Buying today, my choice would be neither. I am completely turned off to everything Remington after the 700 recall, R1, new R1 (still can move the trigger side to side .5" both ways), 870 express finishes, etc. Mossberg is good to go but I don't like the loose fit on many of them, though that is purely personal preference. Definitely like them over Remington.
Buying today, I would get a Benelli pump, or if possible, an M2.
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I've got a nearly 200 gun Mossberg data base to build my opinion off of, worked on them, shot them extensively, seen them abused, etc. Hence where my opinion comes from. Not butt-hurt at all if people feel differently.
I am the owner of Agile/Training and Consulting
www.agiletactical.com
Sample size of one, but after watching the sole Benelli (an M3) repeatedly choke in a class, I'll stick with my older 870s. We could make the thing choke on demand in semi-auto just by gripping the forend too tightly. It apparently bound up the magazine tube, so when the bolt cycled, there was nothing to be picked up. Plus, the rear sight fell off sometime on day 2 (though that could have been remedied with loctite).
Mossberg makes a good shotgun as well, but I'm used to the control layout of the 870.
Over the last 10 years the supply of shotgun ammo has been relatively stable. I've never had a problem finding field loads to use as practice ammo, I can go to at 5 different stores and find a 1,000 rounds for less that $240. There's a fairly consistent production of duty/defense ammo and there hasn't been a lot of price gouging.
Looking at the latest round of 5.56/.223 ammo silliness, which I half suspect is getting blown out of proportion by people that stand to make a buck off the hysteria, there's always some reason for prices to stay high and availability to be spotty. In all fairness to rifles, most practice ammo makes a pretty good defensive ammo, I can't say the same about bird shot.
Since the early 80`s Ive had a small arsenal .
AR15, M1 Car , Mini 14/30 , high power bolt action, lever action, 12GA, revolvers , pistols
If I could have only 1 long arm I would choose the 12GA
Main reason I can hunt tiny doves up to big moose. Bird Shot, Buck Shot , Slugs (Wish I could have access to military 12GA loadings that explode.)
I can also use it for HD/SD
BTW
I'm think of selling off my 2 Carbines.
I highly doubt I will ever use them for HD.
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