The Temple Index

[Wayneard3413]

While I have not attended the vehicle class, I have trained with Steve multiple times. He is not big on fluff or flash either on the square range or inside the shoothouse. The context I have seen a muzzle up or "temple index" being utilized to a great extent is exiting a vehicle without flagging your legs or other people in the area.

We use a muzzle up position in our vehicle classes to provide a safe direction with other "people" in the vehicle with you. Think pushing a passenger out of the way to engage a target out their window, or engaging a target out of the back window without flagging someone sitting beside you.

[Chuck Haggard]

I have thoughts of this sort reference "It depends", "mission drives the tactics train", METT-T, and "context", however none of them would have been this well articulated;

http://monderno.com/training/temple-...-versus-range/

[Totem Polar]

Not much to add, but when I trained with Graham, he gave more or less similar reasons as yeti; vehicle transitioning, crowds, tubes etc. His explanation made a hell of a lot of sense to me in context.

Only three places the muzzle can really be: up, out or down. What's above you, what's below you, what's around you; make the appropriate choice. EG. At the indoor range, the "man dance" makes more sense. In thick crowds, maybe not so much.

I'll get back in my lane now.

[Dagga Boy]

I think the emphasis in the article about context is key. As Steve said, it is not a "ready". It is an option for a safe place for the muzzle in some limited roles. Of course there will be a bunch of folks teaching it as the end all be all technique for everything becasue it is a good technique for a few things. The biggest place I see a use is in a vehicle with a bunch of friendlies also in the car. In some peoples world, that is a regular day at the office (sort of like the high ready for those who work in tubes).

Again, A technique, not THE technique. Of course there will be a bunch of folks who make it the new SUL as the "Look how opertational operator operating" I am.

[breakingtime91]

When I run I move with muzzle up with either a rifle or pistol. I'm not sure If I use the temple index buts its in that area. I know there are other ways to move with a rifle or a pistol but I feel like this is the greatest compromise. It only took me once to see a dude fall at my local range while running in SUL and have the whole gun go straight into the deck and get pushed out of battery to decide kyle defoor was right about running with a gun.

[DocGKR]

Temple index, high port, high ready, or whatever the in vogue term is these days is not a new technique and has been around for years, both in military SOF circles and in LE. In fact one of the largest west coast LE agencies teaches it as their primary movement and CQB position for all the excellent reasons outlined by Steve Fisher on page 4 of this thread. It is a useful position to have in the toolbox, but as noted by Nyeti above, it is not "THE" only technique.

[Dagga Boy]

We ran a class last weekend that was a close quarters shooting course. Essentially 2-7 yards for most of the class (inside of 2 in the "ECQC" range is where SouthNarc does an exceptional job, and could be a couple days by itself). The difference in this class versus most is there were a bunch of non-shoot/non hostile "non-targets" mixed in with the targets. They had to get treated like the things on this planet you love the most. This included a snake drill with target stands instead of humans (which meant they could get shot far tighter) and some difficult manuevering drills. Many of the students found that none of the positions would work for everything. Low ready worked for most, which is why we like it for most work and is what we have found to be our most used go to for engagements during the evaluation phase and searching. It sort of does most thing CONUS related well. With that said, there were several corrections for muzzles covering ankles and legs, so again...all of them can be messed up or not used correctly. Our students found themselves in a position of starting in a low ready, transitioning to a high at some point, to an indoor, back to a low, to contact and retention, to some SUL variation. Temple index cannot be used due to our range restrictions, but was discussed on applicability. Again, I can do most work from low, but I can get more efficient with some additions. It was sort of funny when we ran the snake drill (again set up far tighter than Ken Hackathorn does running it live) and I asked who wanted to run it live with the person running it in a high ready? No volunteers and some light bulb moments. Again, you need to have a solid grasp of how to apply these things and it helps to "show" people how easy it is for things to go wrong.

[Steve f]

Big D
miss you man, ill be in your AO-2-7 NOV...

as spoken its not the end all be all having done the snake drill from temple index/gun up whatever shit....
as a crowd maneuver TTP is works the end user must be switched on as I go at it as a hands on drill

the sad part is most will never understand the hows whys or whats to this

[LorenzoS]

Demonstrated by Tactical Response star pupil Tex Grebner at 0:40, or perhaps he's just modeling the tactical tanktop.

[Sigfan26]

In William Petty's low light/vehicle cqb course, the Temple Index was taught so we could rapidly, and safely, maneuver in and around vehicles or in crowded environments. It is the easiest (and, arguably, most effective) technique to teach for vehicle borne operations, allows easy use of the nondominant hand , and allows one to easily scan without posing an imminent threat to those around them. It's an excellent tool, but even Petty will say it isn't the be all end all. It's situational, just like anything else.