We are actually agreeing more than we are disagreeing.Originally Posted by tanner
I think what you are seeing as an issue with the bootleg position is contained in a greater context of other issues.
We are actually agreeing more than we are disagreeing.
I think what you are seeing as an issue with the bootleg position is contained in a greater context of other issues.
And, again, how do you qualify that it is a low probability situation? I disagree with that assessment of a burglar alarm being "low probability." I know officers who were shot on alarm calls. My previous example of the murderer still in the house was not fiction, it happened on one of my watches. Just because you have never encountered an armed burglar willing to use force does not mean it hasn't happened.
I also don't know how your method of being in holster is any safer than using a method that is (at least in IL an industry standard) of searching buildings at the ready (45 degrees, at the deck) assuming we will find bad people. The proper ready position does not leave the pistol pointed at anyone, violating no safety rules.
It is my belief that Officers should be prepared to deal with the most serious threat possible on a call, particularly one which is already a felony in-progress. We both know that we're late on the vast majority of burglaries, but on those where we get "lucky" and show up when bad guy is still on scene, it can be very, very bad. We, as the police, are assuming the bad guy is just a burglar. The bad guy knows what he actually is, and what he has been up to. His motivation to avoid jail may be much higher than our motivation to effect the arrest.
As civilians I wonder why I would want to hide the pistol while it was out? I know how it is used in LE but any ideas from the non-LE world? I fear this might become something civilians do when they don't know the law as a lesser of two evils. I'm not saying I never used it or that a civilian never should but I would like to explore why a civilian would.
For many LEO's it seemed that they ended up making it the default ready position which then turned into having the pistol out when the law and procedures didn't advocate it out. ie they weren't just hiding it from view but trying to hide it from their boss. Because of body position and lighting most people knew the pistol was out and we were just kidding ourselves. Add that to everyone videotaping everything these days it could become more of a problem then a solution if the officer/civilian couldn't articulate properly why the pistol is out. While the law is mostly the same for civilians and LEO's when it comes to this, it is naive to think that the "reasonable person" equations doesn't fall more leniently on the LEO's side in many situations. LEO gets reprimanded and civilian gets arrested is a strong possibility.
What you do right before you know you're going to be in a use of force incident, often determines the outcome of that use of force.
For coppers the bootleg position is most often, correctly, used when having to perform something that is hinking you up but you don't have enough to go higher on the force scale, lets say a car stop in the middle of the night and they didn't pull over right away and pulled into a dark side street, as opposed to having PC to do a full blown "felony car stop"
As a citizen one would have to question why one was trying to pursue something hinky instead of backing out of the situation.
Hey now! Good F'ing advice!
Just to clarify for my non LE-ass, what exactly is the bootleg position?
Drawn pistol, gun hidden down beside the leg. Terminology I picked up from LAPD and what they refer to in that Force Science article I linked to.
Ah, makes sense now. I can see how that would be advantageous in some situations; that's basically my "answering the door ready position."
Mine too.
I used to do this too. Then after thinking it through I changed how I answered the door and eliminated the danger and changed the bootleg for my ready position.
If I might need a pistol when opening the door, then why open the door at all. Home invaders in my area try to get you to open it and then force their way in. If you don't open it then they may kick it in. I keep the pistol in my ready position and talk through the door from several feet away. If the answer is someone I know, I poke my face in front of the side window to confirm and then holster the pistol. No one ever knew I had the pistol drawn.
If they are selling me something (or are burglars just seeing if I'm home and are now telling me a passable story) I nicely and respectfully send them away without ever opening the door.
What you do right before you know you're going to be in a use of force incident, often determines the outcome of that use of force.
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