About two years ago I got my first sub compact 9MM, a Kahr MK9. Since that time I have not carried or even shot my Smith 442.
The Kahr is the same size, weighs more because it all steel.
It holds more rounds, 7 vs 5.
Fires a much more effective caliber, 9MM vs .38.
Easier to shoot, due in part to weight.
Easier to carry spare ammo, 7 round mag vs 5 round speed loader.
So I have to wonder. Is the .38 snubbie still viable in today’s world of small 9’s?
I'm still not sold on 9mm Kahr's reliability, with the given that it's not adviseable to rack the slide to load - factory recommendation: use slide release. Seems to me a whole new way to load. A whole new way to clear malfunctions.
Most testing I've seen on 9mm has been with close to 4" barrels and longer. How does the .38 SPL top carry loads through a J-frame compare to 9mm through a short barrel?
Depends...I think a revolver conceals very well because it's less angular. I would personally feel much more confident with a 442 than a Kahr MK9 because of reliability concerns. I've heard that Kahr is either hit or miss and I personally wouldn't drop money on one. If yours works, that's great, but I think small guns like that run into issues more frequently than G19 sized or other service sized pistols because of the speed at which the slide cycles.
It's the same reason I don't trust 3" 1911's. The slide just plain moves too fast. This is just my opinion however, and it may not necessarily reflect reality. If it were a Shield vs a Snubby, I'd pick the Shield every time.
I'm a big fan of the Kahr PM9, but it'll never replace my J-frame for pocket carry.
The 442 draws consistently faster with far fewer hangups due to it's grip and frame shape.
"For a moment he felt good about this. A moment or two later he felt bad about feeling good about it. Then he felt good about feeling bad about feeling good about it and, satisfied, drove on into the night."
-- Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy --
While I won't argue that there are some serious limitations to a snub I love my 642. It is so easy to carry and draw it's not even funny. I forget it's there when I am running and biking. It fits and draws from a pocket better than any auto I've ever had.
Definitely some drawbacks but still relevant IMHO.
JodyH are you going to follow me around the forum and beat me to every post today? Second one in the span of like 5 minutes. I need some more coffee.Originally Posted by JodyH
I feel like we've hashed this out...recently -
Backup-NPE-Gun-Conundrum
Is-the-38-Special-still-relevent-as-a-carry-round
340-PD
No the snub revolver is not dead, it has not been supplanted by the compact 9mm guns by most people. It remains, in my not so humble opinion, the best NPE gun you can carry besides a really a tiny gun. It serves in a variety of rolls a compact 9 can't, firing through clothing/bags/etc. Super lightweight versions are the best pocket/ankle/deep concealment guns you can get with decent power-to-weight ratio. Here's an example Tam brought up for the roll of the hammerless snub revolver firing from inside of a purse.
These are just examples of where the snub can excel where a 9mm compact can't. Add in that it works just fine for all the other things a handgun needs to do and you have a very durable, reliable, and mission-adaptable package.
For pocket carry, I find an "Airweight" J-frame revolver is a good option. Maybe a better option than some of the mini autos out there...
I have a S&W 642 (same as your 442, but with stainless barrel & cylinder) and find it pocket carries very well. This is for two reasons.
First it only weighs 15-16 ounces. You can carry it in your pocket all day without the feeling of your shorts being pulled down. Most autos in this class tend to be a bit heavier.
The second is the snag-free design when drawing from that pocket. An auto, regardless of how small, will always have the slide protruding above your fist clinched around the grip. A Centennial J-frame (concealed hammer version) presents no such snag option with it's smooth transition from the top of the grip to the rear sight.
True, it only carries five rounds and reloads can be slower than an auto, but how many of you carry a spare reload every time you step out of the house? I do, yet many of my friends do not. With a "Pro Series" version you can carry that reload on a moon clip and reloading a snubby just got a lot faster.
I would say the terminal performance differences between a 38 Special +P and a 9mm round aren't as far apart as you might think, especially out of the short barrels we are talking about. This isn't a ballistics sword-fight challenge, just modern ammo has made all of the calibers more effective.
Some advantages the snubby has over any auto is no out-of-battery disconnect generated by a contact shot and no issues when fired in confined spaces such as inside a coat pocket. Both could be of value in a self-defense struggle.
Remember the rule... "Avoid stupid places where stupid people are doing stupid things." This can be a challenge as stupid people are popping up everywhere these days. I often carry an auto if I think one of the "stupid rules" may be in jeopardy, but I still feel covered when I drop my 642 into a pocket for day to day activities.
Edmo
I only used the Kahr as example because I have one. There are plenty of sub compact 9’s to compare to.
The snub is definitely better for pocket of purse carry.
Quick question for the OP... Have you taken SouthNarc's ECQC class?
It was a motivating factor for me to go back to the snub if I need something really small... I can get a pretty monster 3 finger grip on a j-Frame... but only 2 fingers on the CM9/PM9.
I also get a more consistent grip on the J-Frame from both the pocket, or a IWB setup. (The PM9/CM9/MK9 series is great... and I'm a big fan... but I have found that it works better for my wife than for me personally based on mitt size.)
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