I guess Ive been on this topic for awhile....
Here's the exchange with WCR back in Jan of 2011, posted to 1911 Forum, Ive talked about earlier. This stuff matters - to some of us - I get that. And some companies, like Wilson who do it well, and are proud of that are willing to share.
"01-21-2011, 10:59 PM
Tom R Tom R is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 434
Wilsoncombatrep,
Wonder if you might elaborate a bit. There are, without attempting to look up the actual number, a couple thousand alloys of steel. All are fully described by ANSI with a numbering system that relates to the actual combination of elements in the melting pot. The gun industry likes to use terms like "carbon steel" and Stainless. But these don't really tell us much. In fact carbon steel is a pretty meaningless term as steel is not steel unless it has iron AND carbon in the pot - at least.
Additionally, its quite common to talk about the higher cost of stainless steel as you just did, being do to higher material cost and more difficulty in machining. The higher material costs have to do with the more complex chemistry. But different alloys of non stainless steels also vary widely in material cost, for the same reason.
Similarly, the machine-ability of various non stainless steels varies as well. And some stainless is down right easy to machine, without resorting to special cutters.
I get that the various alloys produce differing end product attributes like tensile strength, hardness, wear resistance, resistance to taking a set from bending, hardness. And in making the choice of which alloy to choose any manufacturer looks at processing costs vs the desired end product attributes.
What really matters to those of us looking to buy a pistol and make the choice between stainless and non stainless has to do with several factors. I suspect the original questioner, who asked about the relative accuracy may be aware of the Les Baer position that he can make 1.5" non stainless pistols but wont offer this accuracy guarantee on stainless guns. That certainly sets up suspicion in our minds. And yet Wilson makes no such distinction as you reported.
I wonder about the relative hardness of the parts and wear ability - long term durability. And might this be the reason Baer shrinks from the tighter accuracy guarantee? Wilson can make the 1" at 25 yard guarantee, for a new SS pistol, but is there some idea that this accuracy fades faster in a stainless gun, because in order to assure easy machining of stainless the parts just aren't as hard and/or resistant to wear, do to alloys chosen?
Thanks"
" 01-22-2011, 07:57 AM
WilsonCombatRep WilsonCombatRep is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 10,346
Here are the current specs. These are subject to materials availability, but this is current. Maybe a moderator can make it a sticky?
Carbon Frame 4140 Carbon forging 26-30 RC
Carbon Slides 4340 Carbon forging 38-42 RC
Stainless Frame 400 Series forging 26-30 RC
Stainless Slide 400 Series forging 38-42 RC
Stainless Barrels 416R (rifle barrel grade) forging, 40-42 RC
Aluminum frames-7075 T6 forgings, mil-spec hard anodized.
So, as you can see-the hardnesses for stainless and chromemoly (carbon) are the same. Stainless doesn't machine as cleanly, so there is more fitting required. If you fit it too tightly or improperly, it can gall.
We do a great job with stainless."
A bit further down the page, there was this:
"01-22-2011, 03:46 PM
WilsonCombatRep WilsonCombatRep is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 10,346
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom R View Post
Thank you WilsonCombatRep. Very nice to get a substantive answer.
Tom
Tom,
We have learned that if we provide customers actual facts that they actually like us more! Can you believe that!~
A big part of what we do here is reduce dis/misinformation. Happy to be of help.
Update:
Holy smokes, I blew a hole in it with a torch.
I wasn't expecting a repair for that slide.
Can we get pics after it's machined?
See the cratering on the bottom picture that didn't get fixed fixed?
This was one seriously messed up chunk of metal.
Yes, I was going to ask about that but got distracted.
Very strange when people are talking about you, and you don't know it. Also, my reaction when shown the original defect "huh, that sucks."
Interesting to see Bill work his magic.
J.M. Johnston
Host of Ballistic Radio - Sundays at 7:00 PM EST on Cincinnati's 55KRC THE Talk Station, available on iHeartRadio
Let's not sugar coat stuff, we were actually laughing at you and the tears you cried.Originally Posted by Sparks2112
ETA, anyone want to guess the hardness of the area w/ the problem? I'll give you a hint, it's the same as the IQ of the average bromancer/boot licker.
This sort of thing makes me wonder if I should just buy a Glock lower and add an aftermarket stainless slide the next time I am in the market for a new 9mm
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