Training $,and Balancing Economics vs Performance.

[CCT125US]

Begin with the end in mind. Many folks think sending rounds down range equals an ever increasing skill. I believe Ben Stoeger used 5K to make GM. He had a unique (IMO) method to do that. The way he broke down metrics, classifiers, and required performance is interesting. Through dry fire, he made it work for him on a limited budget.

Looking back over the past several years of my dedicated shooting, there was a period of about 2 years where I shot between 200 - 1000 week, and dry fired 4 times a week. I was learning what I needed to do. I could afford it and time allowed. Currently, I am more interested in skills maintenance vs. getting sub 4 FAST runs. My on demand cold performance is much higher than my best ever warmed up runs 18 months ago. To a degree, I have learned how to shoot, and just an occasional reminder is needed in live fire Life is busy, this month I may have shot 250 rds. However I dryfire every night and still push myself where I can.

In regards to range access, you may want to check out an old thread of mine:
http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.p...ughts+shooting

In regards to reloading, my cost is about $6.25 / 50 of MG 124gr JHP, 4.9gr of Unique, CCI SPP, and range brass. I don't save money reloading, I just shoot more. I actually have been putting off buying a case of MG (3750 rds) because of lack of time to reload. That and a buddy kindly pointed out that I was an ammo junky. If I had it, I would shoot it. Buying a box or two here and there has forced me to be more disciplined in live fire. Nothing wrong with that.

[Haraise]

In regards to reloading, my cost is about $6.25 / 50 of MG 124gr JHP, 4.9gr of Unique, CCI SPP, and range brass. I don't save money reloading, I just shoot more. I actually have been putting off buying a case of MG (3750 rds) because of lack of time to reload. That and a buddy kindly pointed out that I was an ammo junky. If I had it, I would shoot it. Buying a box or two here and there has forced me to be more disciplined in live fire. Nothing wrong with that.

Have you figured out how much time you spend on each box of fifty? All the steps to get loaded from picking up to chrono. That's what interests me, as my time is limited.

[Tamara]

Perhaps not as much time as running from store to store, chasing the latest price/availability of WWB or whatever.

Someday I'm going to invent this special computer network to allow me to get ammunition shipped from anywhere in the country to my doorstep.

(I don't know why everybody makes keeping ammunition on hand sound like such a big chore. Do you also make your own toilet paper to avoid having to "run from store to store, chasing the latest price/availability" of Charmin? Or do you generally have an idea of how much quantity your household needs dictate and just keep it stocked? )

[JustOneGun]

You'd be surprised...Surefire has a timer app for iPhone/Android that is free and works. If the house is quiet and you calibrate it and keep it close,

-Rob

Good info there. I am one of the few in the USA that does not have a smart phone. It was cheaper for me to buy a timer. LOL. AS for using video, most smart phone video aps are just fine for looking at flawed technique. I think new shooters having someone video them drawing and shooting is a great but underused tool. Seeing is believing.

[CCT125US]

Have you figured out how much time you spend on each box of fifty? All the steps to get loaded from picking up to chrono. That's what interests me, as my time is limited.

Sure have
Example is for 1000 cases
Brass pick up counts as no time. I don't leave trash behind, as a courtesy. I pick up after myself.

Dry tumbling: about 25 minutes of my time to load / unload / separete media. 8 hours or so in the machine does not take any of mine. I use the industrial size tumbler found at Harbor Freight

Loading: anywhere from 90 - 120 minutes. I use the time to catch up with my dad and BS, so not much loss there. The time could be cut in half with an auto case feeder for the D650.
So about 115-145 minutes per K with my current setup.
And for those that want to throw out the $ per hour / lost wage speil, rock on. As long as you evenly apply that formula to all aspects of your non working hours, go for it.

Aside from that I enjoy reloading and producing a quality product.

[John Hearne]

I like visual start signals instead of audible ones. I just made a PowerPoint with targets that show for whatever time I want.

[Haraise]

Sure have
Example is for 1000 cases
Brass pick up counts as no time. I don't leave trash behind, as a courtesy. I pick up after myself.

Dry tumbling: about 25 minutes of my time to load / unload / separete media. 8 hours or so in the machine does not take any of mine. I use the industrial size tumbler found at Harbor Freight

Loading: anywhere from 90 - 120 minutes. I use the time to catch up with my dad and BS, so not much loss there. The time could be cut in half with an auto case feeder for the D650.
So about 115-145 minutes per K with my current setup.
And for those that want to throw out the $ per hour / lost wage speil, rock on. As long as you evenly apply that formula to all aspects of your non working hours, go for it.

Aside from that I enjoy reloading and producing a quality product.

That's really good data, thank you.

[HopetonBrown]

I just ordered 3,000 rounds of 124gr 9mm from Freedom Munitions for $639.

Print P-T targets off the home computer/printer.

Made friends with the guys at the local range, don't pay range fees any more.

GardoneVT, how many guns have you bought in the past 12 months? I might suggest less hardware expenditure. Did you ever take that Mike Seeklander course?

[mizer67]

It generally takes me about 3.5 - 5 seconds per round to reload my own, all-inclusive, depending on how smoothly things go. I do have a go-fast setup though with bullet and case feeder. I haven't developed a new load in a few years and the only reason I broke out the chrono now is due to availability issues in pistol powder at the moment.

Although I don't particularly enjoy just pulling the handle on the machine, I do get a sense of satisfaction from my rounds handily out-performing factory rounds costing 4X as much by burning cooler, cleaner, running flatter, taking down steel well, having a recoil impulse I like while producing tighter groups. If you're only objective is punching holes in paper at <15 yards and you don't care about any of that stuff, rock on with the 115 gr bi-metal or plated stuff. It just won't matter much at that distance, but yes, there's still a difference. When you start upping the accuracy and speed requirements, it's nice to get the gun running just how you like and to have confidence in your setup's capabilities.

I like reducing the variables so I have no excuses as to why I suck. If you can't blame the equipment or ammo, there's only one thing left.

Any cost savings is just a bonus. Frankly, there is none, I just shoot twice as much as I would otherwise.

[dbateman]

I think a lot depends on what your aim is, what you're shooting for work or competition and what level you would like to perform.

There are so many different avenues that you can go down with shooting.

I spent quite a few years shooting rifles for work and competition and just pure enjoyment but nowadays I've shifted my interests to pistol shooting.
I've aways had handguns around to some degree but never taken a keen interest in them until a few years ago.

I still shoot rifle about once a month or so mainly as a social thing, but I got to a point where I had to make a choice to dedicate my time to one or the other.


For me in some ways I am lucky and in others not so much, in the town I live in we have four gun clubs three of which I am a member of the fourth is a shotgun club and I just don't have time to shoot shotguns as well.

The pistol club is less than five minutes from my house I can shoot there any day of the week with the only real conditions being shooting is only to be done between the hours of 0800 and 1700. I can live with that. There are three ranges one 50yd and two 25yd ranges.

There is also a 1000 yard range about ten min drive from my house I used to spend a lot of time out there, I have keys and can pretty much come and go as I please the range is open 24/7 with a match being shot every second weekend. It's a really good club.

Then there is a 300 meter range as well, it's about half an hours drive from home. I have been shooting out there a bit as of late but it's mainly a social outing going to catch up with mates, it's not to bad.

For me finding a place to shoot has never been an issue.

Dry fire has always been a big part of learning gun handling skills as well as marksmanship, the best part is it doesn't cost anything.
At the moment I dry fire more than I live fire but thats ok. I work an 8/6 roster meaning I do 8 days of work and then get 6 days of it's a pretty good roster but when I am on my 8 days of work there is no time for anything else, just work.
On my 6 days off however I dry fire at least an hour everyday I also go to the range twice for practice once on Tuesday and again on Thursday and I usually shoot a match on Sunday.

One of the biggest issues I have is ammo factory ammo for pistols is very expensive, I have some factory ammo on hand the price for a box of 50 rounds of 45acp $43AUD and 38Super is $55AUD.

So I realod I found that while I don't mind reloading it can be time consuming if you shoot a lot, I loaded for a long time on single stage presses of various makes but settled on a Co-ax and while it's a very good press it was just too slow for loading pistol ammo. Especially when most times I shoot pistol I will fire 100 rounds or more. So I brought a Dillon Square Deal just for 38Super as it's the main cal I shoot and it is a very good press.
But it turns out I want to speed things up even more, so I went looking for something better and found the 1050... And spent the next six months looking at it and debating with myself weather or not to buy it, I mean for what it cost me to get one over here I can buy a Les Baer.

So I bit the bullet and brought a 1050 and imported it from the US, I can buy one locally but for what it costs to buy a bare press over here I bought a 1050 with all the spares I thought I would need set up ready to go with extra bullet boxes and primer tubes. I also bought a bullet feeder.
It was such a big investment and I was worried that I did the wrong thing until I set it up and learnt to use it, I can load about two thousand rounds of 38Super an hour without pushing at all, I can do that in half the time when I need/want to.

I now have a second 1050 set up for 308.

Getting myself setup for reloading was a massive investment finically but I can't do what I do otherwise, where I live factory ammo just isn't available in the quantities that I need. The way I look at it is I invest the money to buy the equipment now while I can and I have it for life.


Someone brought up targets I had a big issue with getting targets, I wanted IPSC targets to practice with and it seems IPSC Australia have them tied up and try as I may they would not sell them to me. So again I imported a few thousand from the US. I could have made my own but...Time.


Then there is brass, brass is a pretty big issue at the moment.
When I shot rifle rifles a lot I always used Lapua brass I buy lots of brass in 1100 case lots because I can take them out of the box and shoot it with no case prep. I still use Lapua but at the rate I am shooting rifles now and the amount of brass I have on hand I will never need to buy any more in my lifetime. Which brings me to pistol brass I like to have around 5000 cases on hand and currently that is causing me issues.
I haven't been able to find any locally in decent quantities only lots of a few hundred cases and they are $33aud+ per hundred normally it cost me $250 per 1000 for starline 38Super cases including post to my house. So I am beginning the process of importing brass from the US.

Powder and primers are not a huge issue over here but the availability does fluctuate so I just stock up when I can.

Bullets for rifles I always impoertd myself from the US either 175gr SMKs or 175gr OTM pistol projectiles on the other hand are made locally.
10,000 125gr ball 38Super projectiles landed on my doorstep costs me just under $1000aud thats with 770 miles of freight to get them here.

I don't know the cost per round, I could work it out but I'm not worried.

There is a balance thats for sure but it varies depending on what I want to achieve, for me most of the investment stage is over I have all the equipment I'll need it's just maintenance and consumables that I need to buy now.


The biggest thing for me is that I realised time is my most valuable resource and I need to be aware of what I am doing with it.
I need to invest my time wisely, time spent training is a good use of time. I do need to reload but the way I look at it time spent reloading is dead time.


And I'm rambling I haven't found the balance I just know shooting is my thing. Just do what you can and remember to have fun.