Correct, JHC. I drew one with a pox on it. But after spending a week in Columbus, GA she's fine. I wish I had waited to send it back and had read this thread as I would have pulled it and another one apart and compared the internals with photos and comments.Originally Posted by JHC
All who have them should just be wise and stock a few trigger return springs in your spares.
-------------------------------------
"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."
Well, this thread certainly turned interesting… proving that even some things as solid, and with as good a reputation as HK has, can fall victim to drama.
Until a few hours ago, I had only had my hands on a VP9 for about five minutes. Today the LGS had one in the case, so I spent a good half-hour with it. I was about ready to take it (against my better judgement, as it really seems to me like nothing more than a P30 with a different trigger action… and we have three P30s…), when I noticed a 9mm P2000 V1 LEM tucked back in the corner, for only $150 more. Sold American; the bout of new-gun-itis is assuaged, and I saved myself from buying something I really didn't want.
That said… I get why the VP9 is generating so much interest; I really do. And I agree that said interest is well-deserved. I suspect that I have been an HK afficianado for longer- and currently own more HK pistols- than most on this board who profess interest in the VP9. The simple truth is, striker-fired guns are not my favorite. I understand how to work a LEM trigger, and while it certainly has its drawbacks I feel it is the best "street trigger" I've run across in over 35 years of carrying professionally, training others, investigating shootings and gunfights, etc. I understand that opinion is not universally held. And that's fine.
To me, the VP9 is just the ticket for those legions of folks who don't "get" the LEM, or don't like it. Because, let's face it… the HK DA/SA (or TDA, as I believe it is referred to here) trigger ain't the greatest in the world. Okay… it sucks big-time. Truth hurts, but there it is.
The VP9 is, apparently, bringing loads of new people into the HK arena, and that certainly is a good thing.
But somehow, I don't see the majority of those folks coughing up $300+ for a "trigger job" on their new HK…
.
LSP972, I sure wish I had "found" the P2000 V1 LEM years ago. I am super happy with mine. Even with investing heavily with the VP9 as a trainer, I have not gotten rid of any of my LEM guns. I am still carrying my P2000SK as both a BUG to the VP9 and my "walking the dog" and "when I don't need a gun" gun. I am a huge proponent of the LEM as a true "Law Enforcement" trigger for all the same reasons and similar long term observations. With that said, convincing LE of why that LEM is good for what the realities are in L/E use of force scenarios falls into my time honored favorite place.....beating my head against the wall. I am actually going to be loaning Wayne a P30 with the TLG LEM, just so we can both stay current on them as well as the VP9.
I do think the VP9 is the best of the striker fired guns, but that is simply an opinion, and I am fine with others having different ideas.
Just a Hairy Special Snowflake supply clerk with no field experience, shooting an Asymetric carbine as a Try Hard. Snarky and easily butt hurt. Favorite animal is the Cape Buffalo....likely indicative of a personality disorder.
"If I had a grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton".
Crazy talk.
"For a moment he felt good about this. A moment or two later he felt bad about feeling good about it. Then he felt good about feeling bad about feeling good about it and, satisfied, drove on into the night."
-- Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy --
Many of us did not go the LEM route because it is a trigger that is rather unforgiving to those who must switch between platforms. For example, there was a brief period where I was issued a M9 and a Glock by different government entities. Trying to train on a 3rd trigger that is nothing like the other 2 would have been unsafe for me. There are other people in a similar situations who are issued non-LEM guns and don't have the time, energy, or money to dedicate to multiple trigger systems. However, the trigger of the VP9 is close enough to other striker platforms that people could train on a VP9 if they were issued a Glock or M&P with minimal degradation in performance.
When it comes to a $300 trigger job for the VP9, I might have considered it IF time had shown Bruce's concerns to be correct. However, now that Rick has chimed in a said that the trigger seems solid as long as amateurs don't muck with it, I have a hard time justifying the expense when my own VP9's trigger is about the best striker-fired that I've felt AND said modification would move the trigger characteristic to the edge of my safety envelope (4.5 lbs, reduced uptake, etc.).
I like my rifles like my women - short, light, fast, brown, and suppressed.
Actually, I'm "re-discovering" it. When I first weaned the wife from Glocks and onto HK, the P2000 LEM in 9mm was her HK of choice. We had four of them at one time. Then, thanks to Tom Givens and his off-hand crack regarding ".380 Long Rifle" in a class we took with him, she decided she needed to upgrade to .40 S&W. We still have that pair of LEM P2000 pistols (they serve as "car guns"), but the 9mm examples all went by the wayside over time. I bought this one today as much to prevent myself from buying the VP9 as anything.
Again, I have nothing against the VP9, I'm glad its out there, and I hold no doubts that it will be successful. It simply is not my cup of tea.
.
I was shaking my head until I got to the M9 part. Okay, I hear you on that. I have bounced back and forth between the LEM and Glocks with no issues; then, several months ago, I bought a P229-1 SRT on a whim. Holy cow… despite having ten+ years on the Sig P-series "platform", it was over 15 years ago. In truth, it was the rearward slide lock lever that was giving me more trouble than the trigger, but still…
No doubt, the LEM is not for everybody. With the possible exception of the trough, the VP9 SHOULD be easy for anyone to adapt to. The trough on the HK45 didn't bother me. It bothers the hell out of me on the P30, to the point that I stripped mine down and ground that puppy away. I haven't shot the VP9 yet, so no clue if it will bother me there.
On the flip side, my bride shoots a pair of P30 pistols in .40 S&W, and trough doesn't bother her in the slightest.
You just never know…
.
I found that you simply get used to the trough in the trigger after a short time. As an LEO, I was actually pretty good about carrying something consistent on triggers. I would agree that the LEM is sort of like the P7, in that it doesn't work well with a whole bunch of platforms. I found that I didn't start shooting well with the LEM until I started to really carry one exclusively and a good period of time on the system.
Just a Hairy Special Snowflake supply clerk with no field experience, shooting an Asymetric carbine as a Try Hard
"If I had a grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton".
I can appreciate that some people got a crap trigger on their VP9. However, I just spent the last 10 min weighing the pull with a Timney gauge - average pull is right at 5.3 lbs. All of the other unmeasurables that comprise a trigger (reset, pre-travel, over-travel, etc.) are no worse and probably better than any of my Glocks and M&Ps. Thus, tell my why I "need" this trigger modification.
Don't get me wrong, Bruce does some outstanding work. I have 2 Sigs that have his reduced reset carry package and would have sent all of my Sigs had the SRT not become commercially available. I have 4 other Sigs with his PI triggers (the factory short trigger gives me a blood blister within 50 rounds). All of these mods are big improvements over the factory standard trigger. Thus, I've become a big fan of GGI over the past decade. However, I'm also practical in that I have no desire to change a trigger that is already a noticeable improvement over all of the competition with the possible exception of the PPQ.
I like my rifles like my women - short, light, fast, brown, and suppressed.
Not me. And I gave it the old college try. Then again, a stock Glock trigger guard rubs a sore spot on my trigger finger after 100 rounds or so, as well. I have relieved the inside bottom area of the trigger guard on all my Glocks with the dreaded Dremel to alleviate that.
Yeah, its funny how, after you retire, you become less anal about certain things.
.
Reply With Quote
