Bruce Gray VP9 Trigger Work.

[Dr. No]

I am struck by so many unusual things about the VP9.

3) that after waiting decades for an HK with a good trigger, most people seem to prefer actually carrying their hammer model HK pistols.

4) that Bruce Gray refers to this part problem as if it is commonly known, and most haven't heard of it -- suggesting there is more to the story.

5) that the pistol HK marketed as having the best stock striker trigger ever, might need a big bucks trigger job.

6) that Gray Guns would develop a package making a pre-cocked, no thumb safety trigger even shorter and lighter.

I think it's a bad comparison - this is a wide divergence from what HK folks are used to, so it will take some getting used to. A lot of people have firm beliefs on what they think is best, and a no-safety striker is much different than the hammer w/safety they are used to. Personally I prefer hammer and safety (grew up on 1911's) but I have also carried a Glock so ...

I honestly am bewildered about it. I'd like to hear more from someone who knows more than just repeating that they heard there was a problem.

Has there ever been a factory built pistol that has not "needed" a trigger job? GGI is very proud of their gunsmithing work, always have been. They have enough work to justify it, I guess.

Isn't that the race? Faster, quicker, shorter?

[tomr]

Its a little soon - but still kinda mebbe fun..... How about a new poll?

And the winner is?
Glock
S&W
H&K
Sig
FNH
Walther
CZ

[LittleLebowski]

I'm looking forward to seeing if this factory part actually breaks out in the wild.

[tomr]

I am struck by so many unusual things about the VP9.

1) how long it took HK to develop this pistol.

2) how powerful the HK brand is, that normally cautious folks gushed about this pistol as the ultimate striker with no long term experience with it. Conversely, how bad the Sig brand has fallen, that most of those same folks gushing about the VP9 assumed the 320 intro would be screwed up.

3) that after waiting decades for an HK with a good trigger, most people seem to prefer actually carrying their hammer model HK pistols.

4) that Bruce Gray refers to this part problem as if it is commonly known, and most haven't heard of it -- suggesting there is more to the story.

5) that the pistol HK marketed as having the best stock striker trigger ever, might need a big bucks trigger job.

6) that Gray Guns would develop a package making a pre-cocked, no thumb safety trigger even shorter and lighter.

Indeed.

[GJM]

I honestly am bewildered about it. I'd like to hear more from someone who knows more than just repeating that they heard there was a problem.

My reaction is that when Joe Sixpack says there is a problem, I don't necessarily pay much attention. When someone with Bruce Gray's expertise says the new P224 .40 is under sprung, or the new VP9 has a problem, I take notice. After all, Bruce Gray's shop is THE shop when it comes to HK mods.

The obvious possibilities are he is mistaken, crying wolf, or it is something we will hear more about in the future.

[GJM]

http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc...9510067063/p/2


From Bruce Gray in this thread:

The trigger bar spring is a long 3-stranded affair that's bent into a S-curve. It's specific shape is critical to function. The bottom rear end rests in a hole in the frame, while the upper forward end is supposed to sit in a blind hole in a small, round plastic bearing that connects the spring to the trigger bar. The spring relies entirely on it's critical shape to stay put in that tiny bearing's shallow hole, and to stay out of the way of the magazine in the mag well mortise.

I've heard tell of a couple instances where the spring jumped out of the bearing, which Rick also experienced with the VP9 here. If that happens, the party's over for trigger reset function.

In my opinion this is an example of the sort of questionable over-engineering that we see in this new pistol. I'm not a fan of outre' complexity where proven simplicity does the job better.

[LittleLebowski]

HK has a reputation for over engineering. HK doesn't have a reputation for said over engineering failing.

[LSP972]

HK has a reputation for over engineering. HK doesn't have a reputation for said over engineering failing.

Exactly.

.

[LittleLebowski]

My reaction is that when Joe Sixpack says there is a problem, I don't necessarily pay much attention. When someone with Bruce Gray's expertise says the new P224 .40 is under sprung, or the new VP9 has a problem, I take notice. After all, Bruce Gray's shop is THE shop when it comes to HK mods.

The obvious possibilities are he is mistaken, crying wolf, or it is something we will hear more about in the future.

Or, that he's a businessman and sees an opportunity.

[GJM]

HK has a reputation for over engineering. HK doesn't have a reputation for said over engineering failing.

I don't see this as related to reputation.

Reputation is what causes folks to gush over something (VP9), or express skepticism (Sig320), at new product introduction absent significant real world experience.

What Bruce Gray is doing is the normal part of a product going from concept to reality. Smart people look at something, and try to pick holes in the design. People shoot them a bunch, exposing the pistol more. Other people of varying competency take them apart and (try) to put them back together. With the VP9, because of HK's reputation and the buzz this pistol caused, this process is probably accelerated.

From my perspective, HK has done a fine job with the VP9 introduction. I can't remember a manufacturer doing a better intro, especially a manufacturer with HK's reputation for being unable to sell free sex. Now the VP9 enters the process of becoming a mature product, which necessarily involves exposing the warts (if any) with the design. Look forward to what happens with this issue Bruce has identified, seeing more people do a deep dive into the details, and to the inevitable things that will pop up as more VP9s get out there and accumulate round counts.

A Glock that functions as designed sets a pretty high bar as to shootability, simplicity and the ability for it to be kept running. The VP9 potentially offers better performance at the cost of additional complexity and some more initial cost. It will be fascinating to see whether the VP9 makes significant inroads into Glock's market share over the upcoming months and years.