Looks Like Legion Firearms is Shutting Down with No Rifles and No Refunds

[Chance]

Yesterday, Legion Firearms posted the following on their Facebook page:

Many of you have been waiting patiently for Legion products and we want nothing more than to deliver them to each and everyone of you. Unfortunately the mayhem of 2013 cost us dearly. Last November we released a press statement explaining why we were so behind in our delivery schedule and what was happening at Legion Firearms. Here’s an excerpt from that press release:

After the tragedy in Connecticut the landscape of the market changed drastically. More people bought semi automatic weapons than ever before. Dealers couldn’t keep product on the shelf. It was a fever without cure.

"For those of us in the industry it created huge challenges over night. Parts we had expected early in 2013 became delayed. Small parts, Bolt Carrier Groups, triggers, all dried up. The larger manufacturers were able to increase supply for their direct customers, but small customers like Legion Firearms ended up at the back of the line. We simply couldn’t compete with the big guys who could place a PO for 200,000 BCG’s with ease. We did whatever we could to keep shipping rifles and pistols, but we were no where near able to meet demand.

To make matters worse, our barrel manufacturer suffered a huge blow as their facility was reclaimed by the government forcing them to move at the worst possible time. Orders we literally expected in January didn’t begin arriving until August. After hex fluting and cryo treating the barrels we discovered a new problem: they were not up to Legion’s accuracy standards. This was incredibly demoralizing for us and for many of our customers who had been waiting patiently, some as long as a year.

Some of our staff suffered physically from the stress and setbacks, and we lost team members we loved. Our communication with customers suffered as well, as did our relationships with vendors and creditors."
While circumstances in the firearms industry have improved, and we were able to fix our supply chain issues, the setbacks we encountered cost us dearly. Both in real expenses and opportunity costs.
Operating expenses, staff and rent ate away at our cash reserves, and we have been unable to secure outside investors to move forward.

This last month has been the most difficult of all. Our bank has called in our note and ordered us to liquidate inventory. They hold a UCC lien on all or our assets, which means we are in dire financial trouble.
We’re hoping this isn’t the end for those of us that dared to dream of a better way to build guns. However, for us to keep operating and deliver our products we need to find outside capital. We are seeking anybody who can invest in Legion Firearms, or an individual or company who is interested in acquiring Legion Firearms. Short of that, we won’t survive. The last thing we want is failure to to deliver on our customers’ orders, so we’re hopeful we can find the capital to move forward.

We are open to any reasonable solution to solving our cash problems and keep Legion alive. So many of us have put literally everything we have into making this dream happen, and none of us want to see it end. If you or someone you know is interested and in acquiring Legion Firearms please contact help@legionfirearms.com. Help us STAY IN THE FIGHT™

In the interim we have only been able to answer limited phone calls and product requests. We’ll keep you updated as things progress, but it’s simply impossible for me to work on the sale of Legion Firearms, make a living, and answer everyone’s inquiries. I’m sorry we can’t do more. We will update everyone as things progress.

Have a rifle, paid in full, on order from them back in January 2013. I saw a number of reputable places, Soldier Systems and Kit Up! amongst them, who talked about Legion so I never doubted they were legit. But seeing that more than a handful of other people are in my same position, some of which ordered products both later and earlier than I did, and seeing a complaint with the BBB makes me feel... duped.

Anyone know or have experience with them?

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I had them look over a middy upper that had been built by Weapon Outfitters that was having undergassed issues; was recommended by the gas block manufacturer (MicroMOA), as Legion had been using that particularly gas block a fair bit. Comms was a little slow, but always there in the end, and quite detailed, and the end result was a properly gassed upper. I had a good experience with them, and had considered going back to them for further uppers, but decided to go with PWS later on.

I guess that's one of the things about the smaller companies, having a great product doesn't mean that the business will succeed (I lost a couple hundred on Secret City Weaponeers; beautiful holsters, crap business plan). A shame about Legion; still, I do think that their lack of communications is a huge detriment to their reputation. I feel that as long as the business does a good job of communicating to the customer as to what's going on, the customer is almost always far more accommodating and understanding than if there was nothing more than stony silence.

[VolGrad]

I lost a couple hundred on Secret City Weaponeers; beautiful holsters, crap business plan.

... don't even get me started on Tony. My blood pressure rose just seeing your reference to his debacle of a business.

[GardoneVT]

I had them look over a middy upper that had been built by Weapon Outfitters that was having undergassed issues; was recommended by the gas block manufacturer (MicroMOA), as Legion had been using that particularly gas block a fair bit. Comms was a little slow, but always there in the end, and quite detailed, and the end result was a properly gassed upper. I had a good experience with them, and had considered going back to them for further uppers, but decided to go with PWS later on.

I guess that's one of the things about the smaller companies, having a great product doesn't mean that the business will succeed (I lost a couple hundred on Secret City Weaponeers; beautiful holsters, crap business plan). A shame about Legion; still, I do think that their lack of communications is a huge detriment to their reputation. I feel that as long as the business does a good job of communicating to the customer as to what's going on, the customer is almost always far more accommodating and understanding than if there was nothing more than stony silence.

The best customer service in the world won't fix cash flow problems.

If your business can't create sellable product due to outside factors, its curtains unless the management can find a way to pay recurring expenses in the meantime.Legion firearms isn't the first business to fail that way, and won't be the last.

[Chance]

A shame about Legion; still, I do think that their lack of communications is a huge detriment to their reputation. I feel that as long as the business does a good job of communicating to the customer as to what's going on, the customer is almost always far more accommodating and understanding than if there was nothing more than stony silence.

Maybe it was just me, but I rarely had an issue getting a hold of them, and I probably called seven times over the past months. There were even times I called, got no response, only to have an unrecognized number call me back and it was Adam - I don't know if he saw it on the caller ID or what.

Thanks for the response though, truly. I was sort of beginning to think I had just been scammed.

[Chance]

Their Facebook announcement is just becoming a forum for people to organize a class action. I've tallied almost $40,000 in what they owe, and those are just the people that bothered to respond, and the post isn't 24 hours old. I can't say I'm happy to be out $2,300, but the blood bath's getting tough to watch.

[TCinVA]

I saw a number of reputable places, Soldier Systems and Kit Up! amongst them, who talked about Legion so I never doubted they were legit.

I'll just be a bastard and say it:

There's an awful lot of buddy stuff in the firearms industry. In other words, Bob starts a company and Bob's a pretty good guy who seems to have the best of intentions and lots of people who like Bob say he's squared away and legit and then people spend money with Bob.

Bob could be a very capable, very honest guy who makes it work.

Bob could be a very capable, very honest guy who gets rammed hard with no lube by Murphy's law.

Bob could be a very honest, but as it turns out thoroughly incapable guy who had no realistic chance of making it work.

Bob could be a dishonest scuzzbucket who cons people by being friendly at the SHOT show and thieves from everybody.

I don't know anything about this Legion outfit or the personalities behind it, or the personalities who gave them the thumbs up. All I know is that as a consumer I tend to be a bit skeptical of seals of approval as a basis for selecting someone to do business with. There are some seals of approval I'd absolutely rely on, but they tend to come from people who almost never give one out in the first place precisely because of the possibilities.

[Chance]

I'll just be a bastard and say it:

There's an awful lot of buddy stuff in the firearms industry. In other words, Bob starts a company and Bob's a pretty good guy who seems to have the best of intentions and lots of people who like Bob say he's squared away and legit and then people spend money with Bob.

Bob could be a very capable, very honest guy who makes it work.

Bob could be a very capable, very honest guy who gets rammed hard with no lube by Murphy's law.

Bob could be a very honest, but as it turns out thoroughly incapable guy who had no realistic chance of making it work.

Bob could be a dishonest scuzzbucket who cons people by being friendly at the SHOT show and thieves from everybody.

I don't know anything about this Legion outfit or the personalities behind it, or the personalities who gave them the thumbs up. All I know is that as a consumer I tend to be a bit skeptical of seals of approval as a basis for selecting someone to do business with. There are some seals of approval I'd absolutely rely on, but they tend to come from people who almost never give one out in the first place precisely because of the possibilities.

You're not a bastard for saying it, because it's the truth in every industry. If it weren't for the total dry hole and apocalyptic attitude in the days immediately post-Newtown, I wouldn't have purchased from them. I bought in January 2013, when they said they were still taking orders, and a $700 Bushmaster was running about $4000 at most gun stores. Legion's $2300 was a (theoretical) bargain by comparison.

Oh, well. I'm a sucker. Lesson learned. Moving on.

[Chuck Haggard]

This is why I caution a person, or more especially an agency, to stick to established gun makers.

Our team just went and bought 8 piston ARs (for an outrageous amount of money I might add) from a small maker because Piston!, if the maker goes under then they have guns with proprietary parts and no source to get things fixed.

None of this counts if you have your gun needs met and you have the means to risk losing money on betting the small maker will not go under, in that case carry on.

[RevolverRob]

Brutal. I will say, I applaud their open honesty regarding money issues in the letter in the OP. It would have been better if they had been that transparent the whole time.

I'm guessing a number of boutique AR makers are only a couple of missed shipments away from serious financial problems. Guns are notoriously a losing proposition with profit margins in the tens of percent versus something like textiles with profits in the hundreds of percent. This is why big manufacturers are largely the game in town and if you want something special have it custom built from a highly reputable crew or DIY. Every once in a great while I think about getting into manufacturing business and then I sit down, crunch some numbers, and go back to my work bench to build a one off for myself or a friend and call it a day...

-Rob