Closing on attacker

[BoppaBear]

Lately, I've been wondering about when/if it is appropriate to close the distance on an attacker. To disarm after they are down, etc.

I figure it is situation-dependent, dependent on cover, surroundings, etc., but would love to hear others' thoughts.

For clarification, the situation I'm imagining is you've recognized a threat, make the decision to draw, and fire. This obviously isn't a 25 yard scenario, as with that much distance, breaking away is the best option. What I'm wondering is inside of that distance...15, 10, 7 yards.

I understand that there are many factors, etc., but was thinking about some drills done in courses in the past. While many of the drills involve walking/moving backwards away from the threat, and rightfully so, some involve iterations of moving towards the threat.

[Josh Runkle]

Depends on so many factors. Are you law enforcement or civilian? Is there more than one threat? The list goes on and on.

Yes, closing the distance is appropriate...when it's appropriate. For example, they are a bad guy holding your kid...might be a time (or might not) when it is appropriate to close the distance. You should practice movement in all directions and not get tied into only retreating.

[BoppaBear]

Depends on so many factors....You should practice movement in all directions and not get tied into only retreating.

Agreed on all points, especially these.

There are scenarios, as a civilian, that I can see closing on your attacker to be appropriate. This being said, there are so many variables.

[Lon]

Lately, I've been wondering about when/if it is appropriate to close the distance on an attacker. To disarm after they are down, etc.

Regarding the approaching to disarm. I have a hard time seeing a scenario where a non-LEO approaching a downed bad guy to disarm them is a good idea. Especially if they (good guy) are alone. My opinion is that once bad guy is down, you stay back (heck, evac the area if appropriate), call 911 and wait for the PoPo to come deal with said downed bad guy.

My wife like the phrase "know your role". Usually directed at me for some reason. Anyway, I use this phrase when I teach non-LEO classes. Know your role. Your role (and mine in an off duty capacity) is to protect you and yours. That's it.

Heck, I have a hard time with a single LEO approaching a downed bad guy to disarm. If they aren't outta the fight and you get to grappling distance, things can get kittened up quick. That's why we teach the contact officer/cover officer technique. I use the know your role line for LEO classes as well. It seems like many officers feel like they have to run up to a downed bad guy (especially in AS training scenarios) and try to disarm and/or handcuff them with one hand while they have their pistol in the other. Their role (initially) is to stop bad guy. Once said bad guy is stopped, they can wait for more units to finish up.

There may be some rare scenario where it might be appropriate, but 99.9% of the time - NO.

[ST911]

It depends.

You should always consider movement. It may be to cover for protection, a position of advantage for more effective fire, a position that enables other rescuers to find and partner with you, to deceive, to escape, to aggress, to manage lighting, or to make yourself less threatening to responding officers. You may need to move multiple times as you progress through these tasks.

[BoppaBear]

Good points guys. Thanks.

[uechibear]

Lately, I've been wondering about when/if it is appropriate to close the distance on an attacker. To disarm after they are down, etc.

If I ever have to shoot someone, I want the police to find the bad guy's weapon on/near him because that would help support my claim of self-defense.

[Josh Runkle]

If I ever have to shoot someone, I want the police to find the bad guy's weapon on/near him because that would help support my claim of self-defense.

If you ever have to shoot someone, you should not be actively engaged in the mental speculations of self-defense law during a self-defense scenario. You should do WHATEVER is necessary to prevail (yes, this includes breaking the law, but it also includes living). Then, you should hire the best attorney possible (hopefully someone you have contacted ahead of time if you carry a gun for self-defense), then you should keep your mouth shut. You should leave the "claims" of self-defense to your attorney.

[psalms144.1]

I unconsciously find myself wanting to aggressively close with targets during FOF while the shooting is going on, but I can't imagine a scenario outside of a multiple-officer coordinated event where I'd ever want to close with a downed threat. Issues:

1. How do you KNOW the threat is really "stopped?" There tends to be agreement that distance favors the trained (and we're all in that category, right?), so if you approach the "stopped" threat, you're equalizing one of your advantages. I can think of ANY number of scenarios where a threat would go face down, hands obscured, weapon unseen, where closing would be a really BAD IDEA (TM). Even worse - imagine you shoot, guy falls down, you move forward, he reacts and you end up shooting again, at the guy who's already down? Do you really want to see the video of that "execution" in the court room?
2. How do you KNOW there's only one threat? Maybe your BG has a cowardly lion friend nearby, watching, who doesn't want to face the guy with a gun. Move forward and you might be setting yourself up for an attack from the flank or rear.

IMHO, God forbid you're in a gun fight, once the threat(s) appear nuetralized, you should move to the nearest "safest" place, and get on the horn to 911, then an attorney.

Regards,

Kevin

[David Armstrong]

Lately, I've been wondering about when/if it is appropriate to close the distance on an attacker. To disarm after they are down, etc.

I figure it is situation-dependent, dependent on cover, surroundings, etc., but would love to hear others' thoughts.

For clarification, the situation I'm imagining is you've recognized a threat, make the decision to draw, and fire. This obviously isn't a 25 yard scenario, as with that much distance, breaking away is the best option. What I'm wondering is inside of that distance...15, 10, 7 yards.

I understand that there are many factors, etc., but was thinking about some drills done in courses in the past. While many of the drills involve walking/moving backwards away from the threat, and rightfully so, some involve iterations of moving towards the threat.

For a non-LEO in a CCW situation, the only reason I can envison for moving closer to the threat is if that is where my only cover would be.