The Islamic State

[Mike C]

In 2009, al-Qaeda in Iraq was thoroughly beaten and violence was a fraction of what it had been. Then, we released al-Baghdadi, IS's self-designated Caliph, because holding jihadist prisoners is frowned on in the best European circles. After that, we withdrew all the support that gave us clout with the Iraqi government and proclaimed the war over.

Once again, America won the war and lost the peace and once again Americans from "flyover country" will have to pay for the mistakes and arrogance of the Washington elites.

This is exactly what I remember. Hell, even when I was back in Mosul again in '06-'07 there was an enormous difference between '03-'04 in the sectarian violence and terrorism. After we spent some serious time cleaning house we would go weeks without IED's and sometimes days or weeks between firefights, (specifically '03-'04). IED rates went through the roof in '06 but ISI/AQI what ever name you want to spin didn't have a nut to stand toe to toe and the few times that they did we stomped a mud hole in them. Now I can't speak for other units AO's but this was certainly my experience.

Jeep I couldn't agree more, we ripped away the support from everyone who had been supporting us, especially those who's trust was hard to win and was done so by spilling blood on both sides. I totally agree that we are going to pay for this crap for years to come due to arrogance and ignorance of unforeseen consequences. I am sick of idiots running things when they don't have the guts to stick it out and finish what we started all because of political pressure.

After all why half a*& it? If we are just going to pullout 13-14 years later and allow another a fundamentalist group take over what dictatorship we toppled to install a semi-democratic government just don't bother; or better yet let's just glass their a@# and make them glow and call it a day. No wait... that would cause political instability in the region and be political suicide. (Obviously a heavy does of sarcasm there). Wouldn't change crap for the region either way when you just pull out. At least if we leveled the place the jihadist/fundamentalist would have to move, and when they do setup shop again you smoke their A$# with some more ordinance.

All this just makes me wonder what crap storm my son is going to get dragged into by the morons that will be running the country when he is older.

[Suvorov]

ISIS/ISIL are as bad as the Nazi's were in WWII. I wish I was young enough to go over there and help to eliminate this evil from the planet.
This is like trying to stop Nazi Germany before it exterminated millions of people. We should do it, and start now.
Cody

You could have a son or even a daughter and get them to join up and go kill ISIS in Iraq (just don't kill them when they are in Syria because they are our friends over there). Somehow I'm a lot more willing to put myself in harms way than I am them (even after they grow big and strong).

I don't deny they are horrible guys. It just seems that every 5-10 years some new group of horrible guys comes along to replace the last group that we have either killed, watched get killed by other usually horrible guys, or made friends with so they are no longer horrible guys. It also oddly seems that the latest group of horrible guys used to be not so horrible guys that we supported and trained before they became horrible guys. And like everyone else here has so eloquently stated - the guys who have to go can bleed to clean up the mess very rarely share any blood with the guys who got us into the mess.

I raised my right hand eager to go fight those horrible guys. I got off easy, many of my friends didn't. I just don't think I could ever encourage my boys to join the military after watching how the past 15 years have unfolded. It is too bad as well, as it was the best thing I ever did and the best times I ever had.

[Kyle Reese]

Congress could issue Letters of Marque & Reprisal against the Islamic State if we wanted to engage them in that manner.

What's going to present a huge problem for Europe, the United Kingdom and ourselves is the influx of passport holders from these nations joining up with ISIL / ISIS, engaging in terrorist acts in Syria / Iraq, and returning to their respective nations.

[Mike C]

Congress could issue Letters of Marque & Reprisal against the Islamic State if we wanted to engage them in that manner.

What's going to present a huge problem for Europe, the United Kingdom and ourselves is the influx of passport holders from these nations joining up with ISIL / ISIS, engaging in terrorist acts in Syria / Iraq, and returning to their respective nations.

Superb idea FredM, totally agree. All the benefits of waging war with fewer drawbacks. I do agree that this crap will land back on our doorstep too. Thanks for the link interesting article. I learned something cool today.

[rsa-otc]

Once again our leaders failed to understand the culture, judged the situation in our 21st century idealism and values, failed to stay long enough to change the culture and are shocked at the results. How often do we have to go through this exercise before the powers that be understand this. You can't just deal with a culture routed in 16th century forcing our 21st century culture on them and think that there will be a happy outcome. While you have the big stick they will toe the line all the while hate and animosity will be brewing in the background, the moment you take the stick away that hate and animosity will bubble over and burn your fingers.

The problem I had with Bush Jr. was that he dealt with the situation like once they had democracy/freedom that everyone would be happy campers. The problem was that the culture was that unless your sect/tribe/religion was in complete control you weren't free.

One of my biggest problems with Hillary as Secretary of State was that she would travel to these countries that viewed women as second class and force them to deal with her as an equal. All the while the folks on the other side of the table were steaming at the insult it was that they had to deal with a woman. That doesn't help us with these cultures. I don't think their way is right, I'm saying that if you wish to earn their lasting respect and cooperation you can't just insult them by forcing your values on them. This kind of change comes gradually/generationally and best internally. In my opinion she would have been more effective sending a male undersecretary to deal with these cultures. As it is IMO she made things worse.

Going forward we need to think strategically taking in consideration the cultures we are dealing with.

[Mike C]

I think the hive mind here needs to be put up for election. Can't argue with the logic here, well... very rarely in my short stent here.

[JHC]

In 2009, al-Qaeda in Iraq was thoroughly beaten and violence was a fraction of what it had been. Then, we released al-Baghdadi, IS's self-designated Caliph, because holding jihadist prisoners is frowned on in the best European circles. After that, we withdrew all the support that gave us clout with the Iraqi government and proclaimed the war over.

Once again, America won the war and lost the peace and once again Americans from "flyover country" will have to pay for the mistakes and arrogance of the Washington elites.

+1 Neither Japan, Germany or Korea were long term stable immediately after the end of hostilities. Had we evac'd there immediately, they'd have collapsed too.

[JHC]

This is exactly what I remember. Hell, even when I was back in Mosul again in '06-'07 there was an enormous difference between '03-'04 in the sectarian violence and terrorism. After we spent some serious time cleaning house we would go weeks without IED's and sometimes days or weeks between firefights, (specifically '03-'04). IED rates went through the roof in '06 but ISI/AQI what ever name you want to spin didn't have a nut to stand toe to toe and the few times that they did we stomped a mud hole in them. Now I can't speak for other units AO's but this was certainly my experience.

Jeep I couldn't agree more, we ripped away the support from everyone who had been supporting us, especially those who's trust was hard to win and was done so by spilling blood on both sides. I totally agree that we are going to pay for this crap for years to come due to arrogance and ignorance of unforeseen consequences. I am sick of idiots running things when they don't have the guts to stick it out and finish what we started all because of political pressure.

After all why half a*& it? If we are just going to pullout 13-14 years later and allow another a fundamentalist group take over what dictatorship we toppled to install a semi-democratic government just don't bother; or better yet let's just glass their a@# and make them glow and call it a day. No wait... that would cause political instability in the region and be political suicide. (Obviously a heavy does of sarcasm there). Wouldn't change crap for the region either way when you just pull out. At least if we leveled the place the jihadist/fundamentalist would have to move, and when they do setup shop again you smoke their A$# with some more ordinance.

All this just makes me wonder what crap storm my son is going to get dragged into by the morons that will be running the country when he is older.

You and yours' kicked the hell out of them.

But this was one campaign in the Long War. It's WW III and it has been building for decades and it will continue for decades whether we pretend otherwise or not. A scan down the home page of http://www.longwarjournal.org/
paints quite a picture of the scope.

[JHC]

I see the young kids and twenty-somethings in that video, and they talk about bringing the hate to here, and I feel a little sad and wish they'd go ask an 80-year old resident of Honshu how that works. You really don't want to poke the bear, kid, because we tend to overreact and break stuff. Scare us bad enough, and we'll make your cities glow until your grandkids are born with three heads. We talk a good game of peace and democracy, but push come to shove, we have visited wholesale indiscriminate horror and slaughter on lands that would have made Sennacherib shake in his sandals, and we did it within living memory. Sure, we'll help stack the bricks up again when we're done, but that's small consolation to the bodies buried under 'em.

Boom

[TCinVA]

Congress could issue Letters of Marque & Reprisal against the Islamic State if we wanted to engage them in that manner.

What's going to present a huge problem for Europe, the United Kingdom and ourselves is the influx of passport holders from these nations joining up with ISIL / ISIS, engaging in terrorist acts in Syria / Iraq, and returning to their respective nations.

That's the bit that worries me most.

The ranks of this group of nutters is apparently being filled at least partially by dudes from Europe, Australia, and here in the good ol' US who are going over there to play jihad. I'd like to think the massive intelligence tools that we've learned have been used to gather data on EVERYONE would be employed to catch them posting pictures of their 7 year old holding up the severed head of an infidel and deny them entry back into the country.

Somehow I doubt that's happening. Hell, you can't even get government leaders to admit that this is happening despite the fact that these guys are live-tweeting their jihad. They're using all the modern bits of technology to carry out stone age barbarism and yet our supposedly robust free societies are damn near mute about it because nobody wants to be accused of whatever "ism" gets tacked on to wanting violent nutters to stay the hell out.