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Thread: The Islamic State

  1. #221
    Site Supporter Odin Bravo One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pablo View Post
    There's nothing suspicious about someone driving a car and waving the flag of a known terrorist organization, that has an extensive history and experience with VBIEDS and car bombs, in a major US city with several high profile terrorist targets (not to mention it's the hometown of the president), and approaching the anniversary of Sept 11 terrorist attacks. Nothing suspicious at all. The cops should have busted a U-turn and gone the other way.
    Unless the law has changed in the 16 years since I have been a cop........Probably Cause is "more likely than not, has committed, or intends to commit a crime, and the person(s) being detained is more likely than not, the one(s) who commited it".

    The Tampa Bay Bucs have a pirate flag, and there are no shortage of people who display it on their vehicles. Pirates have a much longer history of crimes against humanity than IS, AQ, BH, AS, HQN, IJ, Hamas, ad naseum. Much longer than the few years IS has been a player at all. I'd also be curious as to the "extensive history and experience" IS has.......certain elements and individuals sure........but as an organization, they are still shitting in their diapers.

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Sean M View Post
    Unless the law has changed in the 16 years since I have been a cop........Probably Cause is "more likely than not, has committed, or intends to commit a crime, and the person(s) being detained is more likely than not, the one(s) who commited it".

    The Tampa Bay Bucs have a pirate flag, and there are no shortage of people who display it on their vehicles. Pirates have a much longer history of crimes against humanity than IS, AQ, BH, AS, HQN, IJ, Hamas, ad naseum. Much longer than the few years IS has been a player at all. I'd also be curious as to the "extensive history and experience" IS has.......certain elements and individuals sure........but as an organization, they are still shitting in their diapers.
    Pretty much the entire leadership of IS was previously the leadership of AQ in Iraq for the past several years (they just changed names) while IS' military council is said to be composed largely of Baathists who held senior positions under Saddam. That, however, is nothing new. If you go back to the battle for Fallujah ten years ago you will find that many of the same guys were said leaders of the "resistance" there.

    Apparently we know a lot about IS' leadership because we held most of it in prison until 2009--when we decided that we could no longer hold them in Iraq and that holding them in Gitmo wasn't politically correct. So we simply let them go. Apparently the technical name for this policy is "bad luck."

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by pablo View Post
    There's nothing suspicious about someone driving a car and waving the flag of a known terrorist organization, that has an extensive history and experience with VBIEDS and car bombs, in a major US city with several high profile terrorist targets (not to mention it's the hometown of the president), and approaching the anniversary of Sept 11 terrorist attacks. Nothing suspicious at all. The cops should have busted a U-turn and gone the other way.
    *It is not the flag of a known terrorist organization. ISIS may have adopted the flag for it's own use, in the same fashion as the Nazis adopted the swastika, but they've both been around far longer than either of the respective causes. It's commonly known as the "black standard" and was first used by Mohammed during his teachings. From what I've read he adopted the idea from the Romans who flew their own eagle, known as the Aquila.

    The Shahada, the writing on the flag, translates as: There is no god but God, Muhammad is the messenger of God. It is a statement of faith and synonymous with Muslims being the 1st Pillar of the Five Pillars of Islam. The symbol on the flag is the Seal of Muhammad, or Khatam an-Nabiyyin.

    I'm down for the 1st Amendment as much as the 2nd and think that their actions are protected under the freedoms of our Constitution. If I saw someone rocking that flag I would probably raise an eyebrow and pay a little more attention but I don't think by itself that it's a justification for police action. However, due to the media saturation and the flag's usage, I can understand why people would be apprehensive.

    This guy in NJ was paid a visit due to his flag as well.

    *This is what I've learned through reading about the flag on the internet so it could all be wrong, but I don't think it is.

  4. #224
    Member BaiHu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeep View Post
    .....Apparently the technical name for this policy is "bad luck."
    No, I believe the policy is called the, "We don’t have a strategy yet" plan. And the strategy will be called "it's all Bush's fault."
    Fairness leads to extinction much faster than harsh parameters.

  5. #225
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    That will be followed by it's all Obama's fault by the person who screws the pooch after 2016!

    There is not much to be said for the Middle East policies of Clinton, Bush, Obama - and Jeb Bush, Hillary Clinton, George P. Bush, Chelsea Clinton, (oh, I'm probably dead by now - so good luck).

    Robot Cheney will probably still alive.

    Seriously, the presidents all seem to have little fundamental understanding of the region and spout and then act on cliches focused by their ideology as compared to facts.

  6. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by s0nspark View Post
    I do have my wishful thinking cap on but maybe it is because the logistics of making the attacks happen here and have them "mean something" (e.g. generate enough media attention) are more difficult than we assume? That and it seems harder to terrorize the non-attentive. LOL
    Are the stories of jihadis walking across our southern border to be believed?
    http://freedomoutpost.com/2014/02/dh...ence-contrary/
    (yes, I know, "consider the source")

    If true, why make the trip? Better health insurance?

    I don't fear another 9/11 (although I'm certain that's being worked on) as much as I do hundreds of small scale attacks all over the country, happening simultaneously (or within the span of a few days).

    Good thing I bought a fresh roll of aluminum foil for the BBQ weekend.

    "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." - Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by Sean M View Post
    Unless the law has changed in the 16 years since I have been a cop........Probably Cause is "more likely than not, has committed, or intends to commit a crime, and the person(s) being detained is more likely than not, the one(s) who commited it".
    True for arrest, but an investigative detention requires reasonable suspicion of criminal activity, a much lower standard.

  8. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilco423 View Post
    True for arrest, but an investigative detention requires reasonable suspicion of criminal activity, a much lower standard.
    I'm pretty sure the "articulable suspicion" can't be based on constitutionally protected conduct. Although such a stop could be characterized as the gov't working in its national security role vs it's criminal justice role, which makes the analysis a bit more complicated.

  9. #229
    Dot Driver Kyle Reese's Avatar
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    Germany sending arms to the Kurds in Iraq; http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29012159

    Germany will also send 240 armour-piercing bazookas, 8,000 G3 rifles with two million rounds, and 8,000 of the newer G36 rifles, with four million rounds. Forty MG3 machine guns are also on the list, and 8,000 pistols.
    A little light on the MG3's, eh?

  10. #230

    The Islamic State

    Quote Originally Posted by joshs View Post
    I'm pretty sure the "articulable suspicion" can't be based on constitutionally protected conduct. Although such a stop could be characterized as the gov't working in its national security role vs it's criminal justice role, which makes the analysis a bit more complicated.
    Absolutely correct on protected conduct, since by definition it's not criminal activity. Just wanted to clarify the requirement for a stop vs an arrest.

    As to the specific situation, as Sean says, it doesn't list the reason for the stop. There may have been an observed traffic violation, or they may have just stopped it due to the call. The former would certainly make it cleaner, and traffic and equipment violations are usually not too difficult to find.
    Last edited by wilco423; 09-01-2014 at 09:02 PM.

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