In which we discuss minority hiring in PDs and societal cultural problems in America

[BaiHu]

Read Thomas Sowell or Jason Riley.

Read them both!

From the other side, this also smears the accomplishments of minorities who do earn their way. I've been called a lot of names, but the most insulting thing I ever heard was when my Business Law professor, also a sitting judge, said in open class that guys like me needed help in society due to discrimination.

Gee, thanks kittenbag. Way to discredit my hard work. If I or minorities like myself succeed, every evaluator of my work has to wonder in the back of their minds if I REALLY earned those titles. It's not a good feeling to have to prove yourself on paper and in person after being hired because your supervision got burned when they hired an affirmative action flunkie.

-edit :I'll also say that lowering the standards in any respect discredits everyone in the organization. It makes the people who had to earn their stripes the old fashioned way justifiably pissed, and discredits the hard work of minorities who now have to overcome the "privlidged" stigma.

GardoneVT, Having probably more experience than anyone here in what actually happens in minority communities and very much living in them, you are a breath of fresh air and the only hope. Personally, I don't care anymore. Most don't. The government has decided that THEY know what is best for those minority communities, so I'll just let my tax dollars work with the government that the electorate wants. From a personal perspective, a vast majority of cops simply hate crooks and it doesn't matter what color they are on the outside. I have stopped a ton of folks for being "white", because in many places I worked, I should have been the only white face in that neighborhood and the others were simply there to buy dope.
To think that enough has not been done to "help" minorities is almost funny. The first L/E job I applied for I didn't get. As my recruiter told me "you know the two women you were with in the lobby in last interview (one black, one Asian), no matter how good your test scores and interview scores are (which were near perfect), you cannot pass them due to the extra percentages they get for being female minorities". Okay, that was fair. Then when I got recruited into a specialized unit of U.S. Customs due to my job performance on assisting them with one of the highest profile successful cases they did in that time frame. My job was set and I was going to be pulled right from Glynco into that unit. The only issue was during the hiring process when I was not allowed to fill out a job application. As the supervisor so eloquently explained to me "we do not even give applications to white males". Wow, guess that makes finding minorities a whole lot easier. How about the California Latino Police Officer's Association Officer of the Year-My partner won that award. It was actually hilarous because his white Jewish partner had to translate for him because he didn't speak Spanish. I also asked the Chief if I was getting the award also......I mean we worked with each other every hour of everyday and everything we did was a team effort........I guess I would have to wait for the "Anglo Police Officers Association" to give me an award........which would never happen because that group would be "racist". My third phase FTO was a rabid anti-semite who refered to me as his "Kike boot" rather than by name. I guess that isn't racist. I just worked harder rather than cry to get passed in FTO phase because it wasn't fair. That extra hard work to prove myself paid off in that I didn't have to do my last phase of training and was released early.
Minority cops in minority communities.........nice idea Cody. They were despised. The were also far harder on the teen thugs about Marijuana, Jaywalking, and other little stuff because maybe they understood that that was the place to stop criminal behavior rather than giving them a "minority pass" for criminal behavior. All I cared about was "Crack" and guns. I also policed through Black Grandmothers. They were the "Pre LBJ" folks who "got it". They were the best help for turning some of these kids around. Sadly, that generation is gone.
I've been around WAY too many wonderful people from every race to think there are differences. I have been around WAY too many turds to believe that any race is more inclined to be criminals or somehow "dumber" than the other ones. It comes down to personal drive and family and cultural values. The reason I don't care anymore is that the progressives tell me that I am wrong. Minorities are apparantly not smart enough to get an ID card to vote. Not smart enough to do well in school and need special help for education and jobs. I don't know, according to the "experts", some groups need help and special treatment because "white males" are so incredibly smart and super awesome that it is unfair to have them compete on a level field with anyone else. I don't believe this for a second, but that is what the "experts" tell me. Now for me, I figure that as having a DNA mix of half Slavic Jew/half Scot-Irish I am blessed with a long history of having it easy and never having to work through sterotypes, and ethnic hatred by others.

Too much gold between you 2 to ferret out any one single morsel. Thanks for your perspectives.

[cclaxton]

Just so no one misunderstands my position: I have issues with the policies and procedures of LE Agencies, and HOW they order police officers to behave and WHAT they ask police officers to do. I honor police and LE's for their willingness to take risk for the great public safety and community well-being. But when leadership orders no-knocks for little to no reason, when policies create oppressive enforcement, when procedures don't provide consequences for mistakes or for "pushing the envelope" on the 4th amendment, or when leadership looks the other way when LEO's assault citizens when they are cooperating, then things have gone wrong. With power comes responsibility. In some cases negligent leadership or lack of good leadership leads to LEO's trying to figure it out on their own and that leads to inconsistency and exceeding authority.

In this age there is no excuse for poor management, bad policies, unarmed citizens being killed, and abusive enforcement except lack of money. I think it was RoyBGiv who said something like "We get the police force we pay for." (paraphrased.) The problem is if we underfund police forces, it leads to the abuses we see today with no-knocks and lethal mistakes...to citizens and LEO's.
Cody

[LittleLebowski]

I couldn't disagree more with your premise that underfunding leads towards no knock raids and oppression. End the war on drugs and work on prosecutorial reform. Do some top down changes, not bottom up change.

[Duces Tecum]

Just so no one misunderstands my position: I have issues with the policies and procedures of LE Agencies, and HOW they order police officers to behave and WHAT they ask police officers to do. I honor police and LE's for their willingness to take risk for the great public safety and community well-being. But when leadership orders no-knocks for little to no reason, when policies create oppressive enforcement, when procedures don't provide consequences for mistakes or for "pushing the envelope" on the 4th amendment, or when leadership looks the other way when LEO's assault citizens when they are cooperating, then things have gone wrong. With power comes responsibility. In some cases negligent leadership or lack of good leadership leads to LEO's trying to figure it out on their own and that leads to inconsistency and exceeding authority.

In this age there is no excuse for poor management, bad policies, unarmed citizens being killed, and abusive enforcement except lack of money. I think it was RoyBGiv who said something like "We get the police force we pay for." (paraphrased.) The problem is if we underfund police forces, it leads to the abuses we see today with no-knocks and lethal mistakes...to citizens and LEO's.
Cody

It's convenient and widely claimed that money buys character. If that were true, our politicians would be paradigms of virtue, and our vow-of-poverty religious people would be a danger to the public. While there are occasional outliers to the examples I've just made, overall I see no robust support to the claim that money buys character. The claim itself is offensive as it diminishes all good people, both rich and poor. Money buys options, not character.

[jlw]

Please show a single documented case in which a no-knock warrant is directly and definitively tied to the funding level of an agency.

[GardoneVT]

Just so no one misunderstands my position: I have issues with the policies and procedures of LE Agencies, and HOW they order police officers to behave and WHAT they ask police officers to do. I honor police and LE's for their willingness to take risk for the great public safety and community well-being. But when leadership orders no-knocks for little to no reason, when policies create oppressive enforcement, when procedures don't provide consequences for mistakes or for "pushing the envelope" on the 4th amendment, or when leadership looks the other way when LEO's assault citizens when they are cooperating, then things have gone wrong. With power comes responsibility. In some cases negligent leadership or lack of good leadership leads to LEO's trying to figure it out on their own and that leads to inconsistency and exceeding authority.

In this age there is no excuse for poor management, bad policies, unarmed citizens being killed, and abusive enforcement except lack of money. I think it was RoyBGiv who said something like "We get the police force we pay for." (paraphrased.) The problem is if we underfund police forces, it leads to the abuses we see today with no-knocks and lethal mistakes...to citizens and LEO's.
Cody

The administrators are only as good as the locals want.

Put simply, we come back to the problem of a criminal-elevating culture. The job of the police is, to oversimplfy, arrest bad guys for prosecution. That's a problem when most of the voting base is composed of bad guys and relatives thereof. We have people electing politicians who promise to coddle bad guys because hey, making sure Ray Ray doesn't get life next time he gets busted is a voting issue for some minorities in major cities.

Politicians know it, which is why they select administrators who will be loyal over committed. A police Cheif and team who go after thugs whilst flipping the bird to City Hall will make a safer community...... at the expense of the black vote and the career of said Mayor and political hangers-on. The rot is so bad in Chicago that cops sometimes hook bad guys only to see Alderman X order them to release said scumbag due to prior political arrangement. Add in a media which is looking for the next activist story to publish, and politicians would rather see a rising crime rate then a single riot from an OIS. Crack vials in the street don't cause riots, but dead crack dealers do.

There's no solving the administrative problem without solving the cultural problem. We keep coming back to the same point, which is that without reforming the crime-elevating culture there can be no lasting changes.

[LittleLebowski]

There's no solving the administrative problem without solving the cultural problem.

*like*

[Squall]

Thank you for sharing your perspective GardoneVT.

[1slow]

GardoneVT, I really appreciate your voice of clarity.

[Kyle Reese]

There's no solving the administrative problem without solving the cultural problem. We keep coming back to the same point, which is that without reforming the crime-elevating culture there can be no lasting changes.

Agree 1000%. Until there are meaningful changes made within this culture, our grandchildren will likely be facing the same problems. At this point, it's a taboo subject to even bring up, and therefore will continue to remain unaddressed in any meaningful way.