HK is smart because they've realized that nobody's ever made a market killing in 10mm. The market has spoken, and it wasn't in 10mm-ese. That doesn't mean it won't be around for a long time as a niche caliber*, but not tooling up a gun for it is hardly leaving a ton of money on the table.Originally Posted by GardoneVT
*GJM, for instance, is right smack on the bullseye for one of the few niches where the chambering makes a ton of sense.
[QUOTE=GardoneVT;253604]Another factor we can add to that list- user ergonomics.
QUOTE]
That's a good point, right there. Those double stack 3rd Gen guns have some big ol' chunky butts. I am large mitt-ed and can comfortably shoot a Glock 20/21, but the 3rd Gen double stack Smiths were at the limits of what I can do, grip size wise. We issued 3906's and 3913's to folks with smaller hands.
I think the 3rd Gen guns I'd be most likely to buy these days are the single stacks.
Bingo.
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Or, conversely, that HK may still be collectively smarting from the drubbing they took when the introduced the grossly oversized/over-engineered P7M10, aka "Das Whale"....(albeit in .40 as opposed to 10mm, but their concurrently built, but never commercially released .45 ACP variant was of a similar behemoth size...-Givn HK's proclivity of over-engineering/super-sizing when up-calibering, a 10mm HK would probably require a shoulder stock and a caddy)
(My smarmyness aside, Tam has probably nailed it. That probably also explains their decline in .357 SIG sku listings in their current production line-up).
Best, Jon
I agree with most of that, especially since I often outshot people carrying Sigs who badmouthed my 5906, however I always found the 3rd gen S&Ws to be easier to tear down/detail strip than the Sigs, and much easier than the Berettas.
I've never detail stripped any of the three, so I can't comment. We went from 3rd Gen smiths to Glocks, and one of the justifications was the ease of maintence.
Ayuh. I call the 10mm the exact right cartridge for a small group of people, and the exact wrong one for everybody else. It really is the first truly successful auto-pistol cartridge to achieve "magnum" performance levels, albeit at the .357 level. The Coonans, Wildlys, Grizzly's, Automags, Deagles and etc were all too heavy, too fragile, too expensive, and/or too dysfunctional to be taken seriously as an "outdoors person's" handgun.
HK should bring back the Mk. 23 platform in 10mm. They could sell it with a drop leg holster with a training wheel at the bottom.
I am loving this and the 3913 thread. I'd love to get a 1076 sometime, I have a thing for old FBI guns, but haven't had much call for a 10mm. Farther north and west would be the place though. Those WVSP 4566s are beautiful guns too. My guess is Smith built them as loss leaders, recognizing that showing they will do what it takes to earn the business of American Law Enforcement means selling a lot more M&Ps to other agencies, even if they lost money building 4566s for one agency.
HK might to just focus on selling VP9s and selling them to someone big, like maybe the Border Patrol? And sell more P30s and getting Larry Vickers and Co. to sell more HK45s, and not worry about loss leaders. Because the German-side of the biz ain't looking so hot financially - https://www.moodys.com/research/Mood...0908_PR_307995 - And FYI that's not the first time they've been downgraded, it happened in 2012 too.
It wouldn't work unless they added (hyperbole warning * Don't get your panties in a twist) a pound of steel to the slide. The SIG design (of which the HK is a copy) is basically a hammer fired striker design. In other words, no energy is consumed by cocking the hammer. This is in contrast to the 1911/1935 design, where a huge (can be in excess of 50%) amount of energy is consumed. The CZ75 was the first real step in this direction, and I question if it is the right direction.
This is why a 1911 can be a 9mm-38S-45-10mm and work acceptably with no significant changes (recoil spring, mainspring, FPS).
Though to respond to what GJM said - I think a 10mm 1911 (10 shots of 155g bullets at 1400ish FPS aren't undesirable IMHO) has a lot to offer as a sidearm for SD use. I, almost to exclusion lately, carry a CQB-E or TSG or DE.
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