S&W 1076

[Tamara]

The frame-mount decocker was indeed a last-minute add-on.

Not that anybody would ever guess that by looking at it or coonfingering it. /sarc

[LSP972]

Not that anybody would ever guess that by looking at it or coonfingering it. /sarc

It gets even better when you remove the grips.

.

[Rich]

No, I am even talking about 200 FMJ bullets at 1,200 fps, as loaded by Corbon and Buffalo Bore, which have been proven unreliable in at least a half dozen different Glock 20 and 29 pistols of Gen 3, Gen 3 SF and Gen 4 type.

I like 3rd gen S&W but never cared for there 10mil or the 10mm Delta. Truthfully I didn't get it at all why the FBI wanted a single stack fed pistol in 10mil when they had the 1911 45ACP.

I wonder the difference in BG penetration between 10mm and 40S&W when loaded with 180 to 200gr ball?
And if the difference would be worth the extra recoil?

[Lester Polfus]

I like 3rd gen S&W but never cared for there 10mil or the 10mm Delta. Truthfully I didn't get it at all why the FBI wanted a single stack fed pistol in 10mil when they had the 1911 45ACP.

I wonder the difference in BG penetration between 10mm and 40S&W when loaded with 180 to 200gr ball?
And if the difference would be worth the extra recoil?

I think most folks with an understanding of terminal ballistics would agree that there really isn't an advantage to the 10mm over modern, mainstream service cartridges using barrier blind bullets, when it comes to human threats.

The niche for the 10mm is as an outdoors, or woods gun, one that can be reliably used on big critters. This has historically been the domain of big bore revolvers, as most attempts to chamber an autopistol at that power level have been failures due to durability or portability, or both. The 10mm has promise in this area, as it delivers hot .357 mag energy levels in a cartridge that can be chambered in a reasonably sized auto pistol.

[Lester Polfus]

Hey GJM,

This is drift away from the 1066/1076 topic, but you've mentioned your poor experiences with the Glock 20 in a couple of threads, and I meant to respond. Back before my Divorce Gun Sell Off, I ran both a second generation and third generation G20. I had somewhere around a 1000 rounds of full power 200 grain loads through both guns. By full power I mean either Double Tap 200 grain XTPs, or FMJ's, or my own handloads with those bullets, running around 1250 FPS over the chrony.

I actually found them to be quite reliable. I didn't have any particular problems with them, but I do remember that above a certain power level the recoil impulse of the gun changed. It's hard to describe, obviously it was "more" but that wasn't just it, it felt "different" too, and I wonder if that was the frame flexing more.

So I wonder if I was on the bare edge of "reliable" with those loads. I'd sure like to know what made the difference between your experience and mine. It does occur to me that much of the third gen shooting was done with a WML attached to the frame. I can't see anything that would account for the second gen running ok though.

[Chuck Haggard]

It gets even better when you remove the grips.

.

Word

[Stengun]

Howdy,

True.

Compounding the issue was the fact that The Director Had Spoken; FBI was going to 10mm, despite his FTU people telling him it was a real bad idea; and there were exactly three to choose from... the Colt Delta Elite 1911, the G20, and the S&W. FBI held to the prevailing (at the time) cop perception that any SA gun with a manual safety was bad juju for LE work; one that is still valid today for a general-issue piece. The Glock was still new, and considered by FBI FTU to be the anti-Christ (due to all the negligent injury/wrongful death suits Glock was facing at the time, caused by cops who had not been trained to keep their finger OFF of the trigger, etc.). So that left the S&W.

.

Also the DE 10mm had a reputation for cracking the frame at the slide stop hole. I saw one crack after only firing a 50rd box of Norma ammo.

Paul

[GJM]

Hey GJM,

This is drift away from the 1066/1076 topic, but you've mentioned your poor experiences with the Glock 20 in a couple of threads, and I meant to respond. Back before my Divorce Gun Sell Off, I ran both a second generation and third generation G20. I had somewhere around a 1000 rounds of full power 200 grain loads through both guns. By full power I mean either Double Tap 200 grain XTPs, or FMJ's, or my own handloads with those bullets, running around 1250 FPS over the chrony.

I actually found them to be quite reliable. I didn't have any particular problems with them, but I do remember that above a certain power level the recoil impulse of the gun changed. It's hard to describe, obviously it was "more" but that wasn't just it, it felt "different" too, and I wonder if that was the frame flexing more.

So I wonder if I was on the bare edge of "reliable" with those loads. I'd sure like to know what made the difference between your experience and mine. It does occur to me that much of the third gen shooting was done with a WML attached to the frame. I can't see anything that would account for the second gen running ok though.

The quick answer is I don't know.

The 20 and 29 seemed to run fine with most everything except the 200 FMJ penetrator loads. Not sure if their bullet profile (flat point), or the bullet weight/velocity was the issue. I agree that you could definitely feel the pistol recoiling differently with the heavy loads, similar to what I have experienced with 230+P in a LW Commander. Those same heavy 10mm loads seemed to feed in my Colt Delta.

[MRW]

The quick answer is I don't know.

The 20 and 29 seemed to run fine with most everything except the 200 FMJ penetrator loads. Not sure if their bullet profile (flat point), or the bullet weight/velocity was the issue. I agree that you could definitely feel the pistol recoiling differently with the heavy loads, similar to what I have experienced with 230+P in a LW Commander. Those same heavy 10mm loads seemed to feed in my Colt Delta.

GJM,

Have you tried the new Federal 180 grn Vital-Shock in either the G20 or G29?

[Tamara]

Also the DE 10mm had a reputation for cracking the frame at the slide stop hole. I saw one crack after only firing a 50rd box of Norma ammo.

Just in case anybody stumbles across this thread via search engine in the future who isn't familiar with this issue, early Colt Deltas would crack the frame rail above the slide stop cutout. This was no biggie, since the slide stop cutout effectively stop-drilled the crack, preventing it from propagating, but "zomg Delta Elites crack their frames!" became such a staple of the gun store commando that Colt fixed the problem by removing that section of frame rail.

Despite this fix being applied several years before the letters "www." meant anything other than the "w" key on your IBM Selectric was stuck, it somehow persists with guys like the one I'm quoting.

Oddly, they all talk about the "zomg Delta Elites crack their frames!" thing, and yet none of 'em ever comment on the junky plastic recoil spring guides they came with that disintegrated in short order under a diet of Winchester Silvertips... Makes me wonder how many of them actually had any time with the pistol in question.

Sincerely,
A Recovering Delta Elitist