Article. Discuss in a civil manner if you like.
Article. Discuss in a civil manner if you like.
#RESIST
I would like to thank IRISH for trying to start a legitimate discussion. Unfortunately, it got derailed.
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Please keep in mind that there are roughly 18,000 "law enforcement agencies" and, if you add in corrections, there are over 1 million peace officers in the U.S. Lumping us all together as a single autonomous group is intellectually the same as lumping every single gun owner together with those gun owners that lose it during a domestic and commit murder. You, as a gun owner, didn't go nuts and kill someone and shouldn't be lumped in with those that do no more than I, as a peace officer, should be lumped with a cop that uses excessive force.
I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.
You're welcome Chief. I hope this one runs more positively. I'm gonna quote myself from that last thread because I think it bears repeating. It's not rocket science but I think that very few people participate in the program and I got a lot out of it.
I would encourage anyone and everyone to participate in their local ride-along program. Rest assured it will change your perception of the police and what they deal with.
I've ran several full shifts with one of my best friends who's got 18 years on the job, he's also a firearms instructor and FTO for his dept, he knows his stuff. He works in a bad area dealing some very nasty people. Rolling in a blacked out UC Yukon looking for stolen vehicles wasn't too bad. No real way to tell it was a police vehicle unless you noticed the porcupine rooftop. Unfortunately we only recovered one stolen vehicle that day but the owner was incredibly happy to have his car back.
Rolling in a marked cruiser, in the same neighborhoods, is a whole different animal. It's kinda like being in a fishbowl, but one that has a big target on it! The whole pay attention to what's going on around you thing was dialed up to 11 on those days. Never relaxed, always vigilant, scanning, assessing, feeling vulnerable, I think it's probably what rookie cops go through as well. People do look at you differently, some happy, some angrily and most just look like they don't want to be pulled over.
He taught me how to operate the radio, run auto plates, access the shotgun and AR in case things went sideways, *he insisted I carry concealed. I was his immediate backup if necessary and it's something I took very seriously. I'm not a cop, but he is my brother, and he knows if the poop hit the fan he'd much rather have me engaging bad guys than curled up in the floorboard of his cruiser. Thankfully that didn't have to happen.
From my limited experience, it's a very difficult job that comes with some awesome rewards, and a metric ton of BS as well. Sorry for the winding dialogue... If you haven't participated in a ride-along yet then I highly encourage you to do so. The only thing required is you taking the time out of your day and signing a few papers, there's no charge and you get to sit in the front. Who knows, you might walk away with a different attitude about police work, you might stay the same, no one's forcing you to change. You might even walk away having made a friend, and an appreciation for what they do, trying to help keep your family safe.
*Disclaimer: This is probably against department policy and if so it never really happened.
Excellent point. As with the larger society they are a part of, police officers or LE agencies cannot be considered as a monolithic entity. I fully expect the bell-shaped curve to apply.Originally Posted by jlw
I'm able to offer a policy level perspective on one very small agency, without going into detail I'm able to say that I have indirect (one step removed) local oversight responsibilities. In the time I've been here, about 14 years, we've had one out of control officer out of a force that averages four or five full time officers and a few part timers, and that tends to have a lot of turnover as the better ones get hired away by bigger places able to pay more than we can. We got out in front of that one potential problem before it became serious. Other than that we've had a lot of people who quietly did there job, and a few who have excelled. Of the four chiefs I've had personal experience with I'd rate two of them as competent but unexceptional, one as technically capable but not very good at interacting with the community, essentially not very good at empathy or social skills; and one (our current guy) who is very, very good.
We ask our LE men and women to be fair and to be sensitive to the dynamic of the community. Most of them have met that standard.
At a national level there certainly are issues in some places that need to be addressed, and it's probably possible to write a book on some of those places. For example, I'd love to understand what's going on in Oakland and I'm pretty sure the issue extends to the top elected leadership of that city.
One of our dispatchers had repeatedly ask to ride along with me so we were out one night. IIRC, nobody else in my district was working so I knew I'd have to rely on the locals for help. I made a traffic stop and the guy had a misdemeanor warrant but had huge flags in the city's database for prior assaults on officers. When they heard who I was out with, they sent three units based on previous experience. My dispatcher was suddenly a lot less interested in being on the road as the radio traffic rolled out and she realized who she was in the company of. When the city showed up and we pulled him out at gun point, she was practically in the floorboard of the car. She never asked to ride along again for some reason....
- It's not the odds, it's the stakes.
- If you aren't dry practicing every week, you're not serious.....
- "Tache-Psyche Effect - a polite way of saying 'You suck.' " - GG
I always carry. But, prior to going on shift with him I asked if he was cool with it and his response was something like "Absofrickinglutely, no ifs, ands or buts about it!" but with a little bit more colorful language. I understand why departments wouldn't want ride-alongs to be armed but there is absolutely no way I would ever go on one now without a gun, ever. Even with my CCW I felt naked. I would much prefer to have had a vest on as well.
After spending some years back at University again, I think all the negative attention LE gets is due to how good our cops really are. We Americans take it for granted that our law enforcement are professionals, to the point where even slight errors in the job are blown up by the media.
Every profession has slugs. There's even some who are crooked. But thats human nature. As much as the media likes to bag about crooked cops, there's shady bankers, shady car salesmen, shady insurance brokers, shady contractors, and so forth. I've never met a crooked cop and I lived in Chicago. I've met all of the others, and they do more damage to people's lives in my estimation then any bent officer. Yet the media never has time to nail the crooked insurance adjuster who's cheating clients out of their due funds.
The Minority Marksman.
"When you meet a swordsman, draw your sword: Do not recite poetry to one who is not a poet."
-a Ch'an Buddhist axiom.
Ride alongs - I will parrot what Irish said. They are an outstanding way to learn more about what your local officers friendly go through. In my previous job we were..."strongly encouraged" to go on ride alongs on a monthly or bimonthly basis; I went on about six with local PD and state troopers and learned a LOT. Made a good friend, too.
If your local agency has a citizen's academy I'd recommend it. Ours lasts about 3 months meeting once a week. IIRC it includes two ride alongs.
Just a dog chauffeur that used to hold the dumb end of the leash.
I have to say my experience with the public has been overwhelmingly positive. Even most people I arrest and deal with in an enforcement action typically are fine, they understand the rules of the game and what's going on and also see that there is no reason we all can't be civil to each other. This isn't to say there aren't any negative encounters, there are but they are far less common then the positives. My experience has actually been that the people some would generalize as being more anti-police actually often times aren't bad to deal with. It's more the tea party types that tend to make even the most minor issues, in fact most of the times minor issues, a fight, almost seemingly just to find a reason to challenge authority when there isn't anything of consequence going on. This has led me to re-evaluate my political views to some degree to be honest. My conservative father (very successful financial guy and bronze star decorated (along with others) Vietnam vet was on a ride along with me once and he even noticed that trend and was equally surprised by it, I told him I was too, but there it is.
I routinely have people approach me on the street, in restaurants, even at stop lights and thank me for doing police work, which actually makes me feel uncomfortable........I'm not looking for praise, just a friendly hello is great. I still get cards from people whose cases I worked on in investigations and see people every day on the street who yell hello followed by my last name as I pass through....these are not your mr and mrs Ameca, but people I have developed relationships with on the street.......and over time they start giving me info I don't even ask for.
I guess I just don't think the problem is as big as some others do, and this is in the SF Bay Area......
