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Thread: Why Americans should reconsider their contempt for today's police (v2.0)

  1. #51
    Very Pro Dentist Chuck Haggard's Avatar
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    The good old days;

    while officers in San Francisco were required to pay $400.54 In regard to promoted positions, the going rate in New York City for a sergeant’s position was $1,600, and it was $12,000 to $15,000 for a position as captain.55 Upon being hired, policemen were also expected to contribute a portion of their salary to support the dominant political party.56 Political bosses had control over nearly every position within police agencies during this era.
    Due to the extreme political influence during this time, there were virtually no standards for hiring or training police officers.57 Essentially, politicians within each ward would hire men that would agree to help them stay in office and not consider whether they were the most qualified people for the job. August Vollmer bluntly described the lack of standards during this era:
    Under the old system, police officials were appointed through political affiliations and because of this they were frequently unintelligent and untrained, they were distributed through the area to be policed according to a hit-or-miss system and without adequate means of communication; they had little or no record keeping system; their investigation methods were obsolete, and they had no conception of the preventive possibilities of the service.58
    Mark Haller described the lack of training another way:
    New policemen heard a brief speech from a high-ranking officer, received a hickory club, a whistle, and a key to the callbox, and were sent out on the street to work with an experienced officer. Not only were the policemen untrained in law, but they operated within a criminal justice system that generally placed little emphasis upon legal procedure.59
    http://www.sagepub.com/upm-data/50819_ch_1.pdf
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  2. #52
    ...and nurses used to wear a white blouse, a white skirt, and a funny hat.

    Now they wear scrubs for the most part.
    I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.
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  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Haggard View Post
    Don't think blue goes with dark brown, I'd have to defer to folks with fashion sense as I have none...
    How very American of you. Brits, and the more fashion forward, rock the look quite often.



    I think I may have included this too late in my last reply, it's from PoliceUno.
    The police uniform is a tradition as old as the field of law enforcement itself In 1829 the first modem police force, the London Metropolitan Police, developed the first standard police apparel. These first police officers, the famous "Bobbies" of London, were issued a dark blue, paramilitary-style uniform.. The color blue was chosen to distinguish the police from the British military who wore red and white uniforms at the time. The first official police force in the United States was established in the city of New York in 1845. Based on the London police, the New York City Police Department adopted the dark blue uniform in 1853, Other cities, such as Philadelphia, Boston, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Buffalo, and Detroit quickly followed suit by establishing police departments based on the London model, including the adoption of the dark blue, paramilitary-style uniform.
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  4. #54
    Very Pro Dentist Chuck Haggard's Avatar
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    A lot of the small things you note are exactly what the good people stuck in the hood complain about. Little things turn into big things.

    The broken windows theory is dead on.
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  5. #55
    Site Supporter Jay Cunningham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRISH View Post
    How very American of you. Brits, and the more fashion forward, rock the look quite often.



    I think I may have included this too late in my last reply, it's from PoliceUno.


    Indeed.

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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Duffy View Post
    I now like to read the comments on the local newspaper's website, particularly the crime stories; the comments are a good barometer of anti-cop feeling, which are way stronger than I ever would have thought. In the suburbs of New York City, for example, it usually revolves around the incredible (as in can't be believed) police salaries and the perception of how little work is done for these salaries as compared to the police who work in the cities.


    Quote Originally Posted by pablo View Post
    It's false economy. In just about any geographic area, higher paying agencies pay less per officer because they face fewer lawsuits related officer misconduct. There's a very small pool of people that are qualified to be police officers, higher paying agencies have the purchasing power to hire and train qualified candidates or better hire qualified officers that were trained by a lower paying agency. Lower paying agencies can't hire and/or retain good officers.
    Agreed, to a point. The NYPD raised its starting salary by $10,000 several years ago because they weren't attracting very good candidates with a starting salary of $25,000. The department suffered lots of "bad egg" issues because of the average quality of the recruit who would work for so little. There are a lot of cities around the country that have "young" police forces; that just means they don't pay enough to retain good people.

    But I only agree to a point. Around here, the average police salary for someone on the force a few years is about $120,000 and a Sergeant gets about $140,000 before overtime. The chief of police in a suburban town with an 11 man force makes about $180,000. With overtime, four patrol officers in a neighboring town made over $200,000. Plus great pension benefits. Long Island has even higher salaries. The compensation levels are unsustainable and the system is going to break. In my original post, I was trying to indicate this as an example of why there is anti-cop feeling. Worse case, some guy struggling to get by is late for his second job and caught doing 43 in a 25 mph zone is going to pay a $500 ticket and court costs, and get an insurance surcharge for 3 years. Resentment? You bet. And yes, the average cop around here is way more professional then he was 40 years ago.
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  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Haggard View Post
    There is no militarization of the police. Period.

    Moon bat conspiracy nuts to the contrary.


    Recently I heard one of the reasons some people think "militarization" is cargo pants. Seriously?

    The "traditional" uniform so many of these folks think of as "police" came from where? Blue is traditional in LE for what reason?
    In terms of the militarization of police forces, I thing the average citizen has two hot buttons, the proliferation of MRAPS and the utilization of SWAT teams to execute search warrants. You and I could argue whether the militarization actually occurred, or not. (Actually we couldn't, since you know way more about the subject than I do. ) But the phrase "perception is reality" comes to mind. The mainstream media is publishing articles such as this one I link to:

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...rotesters.html
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  8. #58
    The media and public sees external body armor and says the SWAT team was on scene. It was more likely detectives/investigators.
    I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.
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  9. #59
    Very Pro Dentist Chuck Haggard's Avatar
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    I've read that article, and many like it. That they are bull od BS and outright lies is a fact.

    Historically when SWAT, real SWAT, shows up the level of violence and likelyhood for anyone to get hurts goes down, way down.

    How did we get here? I'll tell you, too many patrol guys and/or detectives doing warrants and those warrants going bad, really bad, for both the good guys and the bad guys.


    And MRAPS are defensive, they are in no way "offensive weapons of WAR!!!!!". An MRAP would get shot to bits in any real war.

    Why is it OK to put money in an armored car and drive it around town, but not a few cops?

    I sure bet the guys trying to deal with Whitman at the top of the tower could have used an armored car for rolling cover to rescue downed victims of his sniper fire. Just sayin.

    Massive levels of Dunning-Kruger running rampant in the anti-SWAT folks writing those articles.
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  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Duffy View Post
    In terms of the militarization of police forces, I thing the average citizen has two hot buttons, the proliferation of MRAPS and the utilization of SWAT teams to execute search warrants. You and I could argue whether the militarization actually occurred, or not. (Actually we couldn't, since you know way more about the subject than I do. ) But the phrase "perception is reality" comes to mind. The mainstream media is publishing articles such as this one I link to:

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...rotesters.html
    Why is it that no one wants to talk about militarization of the bad guys? Darn near every gangland video I've seen features a chopped up AK or SKS .
    The Minority Marksman.
    "When you meet a swordsman, draw your sword: Do not recite poetry to one who is not a poet."
    -a Ch'an Buddhist axiom.
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