Looking for information on the Springfield "Single Stack Classic?"

[fnbrowning]

Has anyone ever seen, shot, or know something about the Springfield Armory custom shop pistol called the "Single Stack Classic" Model PC9SSC?

This pistol is interesting to me as I am looking at a high-end 9mm 1911 for range and defensive use. It is difficult however to search for information on a name Single Stack Classic without getting overwhelmed with stuff about the USPSA pistol competition.

The Springfield pistol is loaded with features, and Springfield wants $2995.00 for it with a 1-year wait. That puts it in the same price ballpark as a Wilson CQB, or Nighthawk GRP - - which makes a person wonder how well the Model PC9SSC compares against those names.

[JAD]

If I had the need for another 1911 and the money to buy a CQB, I would not have a branch in my decision tree. T'would be a pole.

[HopetonBrown]

I would either spend $2k on the Springfield Warren Tactical 9mm 1911 or $3k on a Wilson CQB 9mm.

[Trooper224]

I'm a fan of Springfield Armory. A Range Officer currently serves as my competition pistol and after owning several of their handguns and rifles I have yet to be disappointed. Still, I've never seen an SA inc. pistol I'd pay that much for, including the Professional. Once the pricepoint reaches that level it's time to go for a Wilson.

[fnbrowning]

I would either spend $2k on the Springfield Warren Tactical 9mm 1911 or $3k on a Wilson CQB 9mm.

Thanks for mentioning this product. It looks quite interesting, and I am researching the pistol.

[Rosco Benson]

I think that deviating from .45ACP in the 1911, for defensive use, is too much of a functional risk to take. If you want to carry a 9mm for defense, I would suggest using a pistol that was designed to be a 9mm from the start.

I have two 9mm 1911's (a S&W Pro-Series and a Caspian build by EGW). They are delightful to shoot and run well with hardball and cast roundnose or truncated cone handloads. They'll run with JHP's that have a very rounded ogive (like the old federal 115gr JHP). Go with a blunter JHP, like a 124gr Speer Gold Dot and they'll nose dive a round into the feed ramp occasionally.

Also, if I'm going to carry a pistol that as big as a 1911 in 9mm, I want it to hold lots of rounds.



Rosco

[JonInWA]

While the 1911 platform has many rewards, if I wanted a 9mm single action pistol, my first, and probably most cost-effective solution would simply to acquire a FN/Browning Hi Power Mk III. While they're not inexpensive (especially new, even when discounted), they're a very established, reliable commodity, and are likely to be significantly less expensive than Springfield/Warren, Nighthawk Custom, or Wilson builds. There are trade-offs, but I don't think that any of them would be de facto deal-killers. And there are some excellent Hi Power wrench-turners out there, as well.

Best, Jon

[fnbrowning]

I had a Browning Mark II from 1986 to last year. So I've been there.
Without going into all the particulars, just recall the P35 range report vs. the SACS/Warren Reliability test threads on this site. 'WTL' 1911 9mm goes 50,000 rounds! Fourteen stoppages in 50,000 rounds - heck, my BHP - worked over my Garthwaite in the 90's - was not nearly that reliable. What's the best guess for BHP wear?? 12K-15K for the barrel, and 35K for the overall gun? And that's with standard pressure ammo. At this moment, I cannot find the final +P round count on the SACS/Warren Reliability test, but it went way, WAY beyond what the BHP can take.

And then there's this gem:

The entire trigger linkage on the BHP is an abomination unto the eyes of the Lord. Depending on which book of the Apocrypha you believe, it's either an evil Frog meddling with JMB's design, or a near-death JMB having to design around his own patents. Not even Pedersen ever designed a linkage so Byzantine...

I love her way with words, and you know what? From a former BHP owner, she's right! Look at the price for a new BHP, PLUS what you'd have to spend with a master pistolsmith just to get it to equal a mid-priced 9mm 1911 trigger and accuracy.

I bought a S&W 1911 Pro 9mm. It fits in my Specter Gear rig, there was no change in the manual of arms, it eats commercial HPs AND my Hornady 124gr reloads and my accuracy went up 'just like that.'

So, sorry Jon. I liked the BHP for many years, but now I've moved on. I love the 1911 platform, and I want another, and the Springfield Custom Shop Warren Tactical 1911 9mm is looking darn good in the reviews.

[fnbrowning]

I think that deviating from .45ACP in the 1911, for defensive use, is too much of a functional risk to take. If you want to carry a 9mm for defense, I would suggest using a pistol that was designed to be a 9mm from the start.

I have two 9mm 1911's (a S&W Pro-Series and a Caspian build by EGW). They are delightful to shoot and run well with hardball and cast roundnose or truncated cone handloads. They'll run with JHP's that have a very rounded ogive (like the old federal 115gr JHP). Go with a blunter JHP, like a 124gr Speer Gold Dot and they'll nose dive a round into the feed ramp occasionally.

Also, if I'm going to carry a pistol that as big as a 1911 in 9mm, I want it to hold lots of rounds.



Rosco

You and I have very different experiences with the S&W Pro-Series.

And, my BHP held 13 rounds. Only 3 more than the S&W Pro series. If I need more than 10 rounds, I should have brought a rifle, or more friends!

[JonInWA]

I had a Browning Mark II from 1986 to last year. So I've been there.
Without going into all the particulars, just recall the P35 range report vs. the SACS/Warren Reliability test threads on this site. 'WTL' 1911 9mm goes 50,000 rounds! Fourteen stoppages in 50,000 rounds - heck, my BHP - worked over my Garthwaite in the 90's - was not nearly that reliable. What's the best guess for BHP wear?? 12K-15K for the barrel, and 35K for the overall gun? And that's with standard pressure ammo. At this moment, I cannot find the final +P round count on the SACS/Warren Reliability test, but it went way, WAY beyond what the BHP can take.

And then there's this gem:


I love her way with words, and you know what? From a former BHP owner, she's right! Look at the price for a new BHP, PLUS what you'd have to spend with a master pistolsmith just to get it to equal a mid-priced 9mm 1911 trigger and accuracy.

I bought a S&W 1911 Pro 9mm. It fits in my Specter Gear rig, there was no change in the manual of arms, it eats commercial HPs AND my Hornady 124gr reloads and my accuracy went up 'just like that.'

So, sorry Jon. I liked the BHP for many years, but now I've moved on. I love the 1911 platform, and I want another, and the Springfield Custom Shop Warren Tactical 1911 9mm is looking darn good in the reviews.

Nah, it's all good. And your shared empirical data is certainly helpful. And I'm certainly not blind to the disadvantages inherent to the Hi Power; here's a thread that I initiated going through the Pros and Cons:

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=456583

Regarding durability, Bill Rehl is currently doing a long-term test, as he is very skeptical regarding the often touted 12K-15K barrel durability and overall 35K pistol durability figures; it'll be interesting to see what he comes up with.

Reliability wise, out of my 3 Hi Powers, all purchased brand new, all in .40, I've literally encountered only one malfunction-a sear failure in my first Hi Power, someplace between the 6K-8K roundcount; the hammer would fall to half-cock when the slide was placed into battery. Browning USA fixed it, to the tune of a installing a replacement sear and a new recoil spring (this they did as a matter of course, despite my having changed out the recoil spring regularly). I will say that nowadays I only will use FN/Browning recoil springs, not Wolff, as the FN/Browning replacement springs are significantly stiffer than those from Wolff (interestingly, they're also stiffer than the OEM spring...).

While the SACS/Warren 9mm 1911 as tested by Todd did have some significant advantages over a Mk III Hi Power, I'm not so sure that reliability was actually one of them...nor, of course was price-but again, you're comparing a custom (and a specifically customized bespoke gun) to a standard production one in such a SACS/Warren vs Hi Power comparison; a more interesting and analogous comparison might be putting the SACS/Warren against, say, a Heirloom Precision Hi Power, with the Hi Power similarly optimized for duty/long-term carry and use. My guess is that the SACS/Warren would take the win for overall durability, but the journey might be interesting indeed.

Regarding the Hi Power's notorious triggerpull, I think recent production Hi Powers (i.e., those manufactured in the past 5 or so years) have tended to be far better than their predecessors-at least, that's been the case in all the ones that I've handled and examined. No, a Hi Power trigger, especially out of the box, isn't going to have the exquisiteness (the potential for such) of a good 1911 trigger, but they're certainly usable. The triggerpull on my current MK III is somewhat heavy (but hardly prohibitively so), but very smooth and crisp. Of course, the reset point is...letting the trigger go fully forward...

Given a choice between a SACS/Warren and a stock current Mk III Hi Power, I'd be an idiot to take anything but the SACS/Warren. But when you factor in actual cost of acquisition, availability of acquisition, and then look at the pros and cons objectively, I can see how the Hi Power can be a viable contender.

Best, Jon