FBI to adopt 9 mm pistols

[Will_H]

As an example, in 2006 BMW came out with a turbo six cylinder that made 300 horsepower. People found that with the change of software calibration and nothing else, one could add almost 50% more power. If BMW had come out with this from the factory, the car would have been heralded as an amazing performer.

But was the car too powerful? It did work, and that was enough for the people doing it. Nothing broke immediately. Was it too powerful? Things broke more, long term. Every mechanical object has only so much strength, and more power will cause more issues as you move into counting on the areas that were overbuilt for reliability. Was it too powerful? People with long term, expensive issues (oil cooling, engine bearings) might have said 'no' when buying it, but 'yes' when the repair bill came in.

I get the point you are trying to make, but a mail order tune on an N54 versus stock is a pretty big stretch to 9 mm versus .40 in factory guns. You can't really factory vs aftermarket drivetrain reliability to factory vs factory guns.

[Haraise]

I get the point you are trying to make, but a mail order tune on an N54 versus stock is a pretty big stretch to 9 mm versus .40 in factory guns. You can't really factory vs aftermarket drivetrain reliability to factory vs factory guns.

Mechanical strength is mechanical strength, if the power is coming from gasoline or powder doesn't make too much difference to bits of metal. Adding more power to a design without significant alteration is what we're talking about here. Could you show that most guns designed for 9 have had significant alteration when moved to .40, as opposed to changing springs and possibly timing? I'd be really interested to see that.

[Chuck Haggard]

From my observation every .40 pistol on the market breaks more, or has more issues, than the same model in 9mm

Jim Cirillo, who was a pretty smart dude, told me he though the .40 should have been brought out in the large frame guns, as in a .40 cal Glock 21 instead of showhorning it into the G17

I know a guy who dropped a Chevy 350 V8 into an AMC Gremlin, it fit, but that didn't make it a good idea.


From personal conversation with an FBI guy involved in this process, he pointed out that little things turn into big things in an agency. Most people don't get that. Lets say you need to replace a $3 pin to keep your gun running, OK, it's 3 bucks. Now, go buy 10,000 of those pins.

[John Hearne]

FI'm no engineer or physicist but if you send more oomph downrange, the gun absorbs it too. More momentum downrange should equal more momentum applied to the moving parts.

This shows itself in Sig pistols. Sig uses the same takedownever in the P220 and P226. The P220 starts to break takedown levers at 15,000 rounds and they're gone by 25,000. The exact same part will last forever in a 9mm P226. The takedown lever is the point in the system where the movement of the slide comes to a stop.

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[Will_H]

Mechanical strength is mechanical strength, if the power is coming from gasoline or powder doesn't make too much difference to bits of metal. Adding more power to a design without significant alteration is what we're talking about here. Could you show that most guns designed for 9 have had significant alteration when moved to .40, as opposed to changing springs and possibly timing? I'd be really interested to see that.

I want to be clear, I don't disagree with you. .40 is harder on a firearm than 9 mm. I don't dispute that in any way.

It's just the specific car analogy was weak. Totally different failure modes.

[cclaxton]

Ernest Langdon says he would rather have a 9mm with many rounds in the magazine because he wants to be the last guy to run out of ammo.
Also, shot placement is key.
Also, those guys have SMG's at their disposal most of the time.
Cody

[cclaxton]

Another factor in the 9mm vs 40cal question: 9mm HP Ammo technology has significantly improved in the past 10 years. With all the new types of rounds that create a more damaging wound and are better at staying in the body and not inadvertently hitting a non-threat, and the mfg develop for 9mm first, this makes ammo selection better. I suspect cost is a factor as well.

Cody

[lyodbraun]

I think most people tend to over think things like this topic of who and why the FBI. Is going to 9mm, and what caliber is better than the other... It really doesn't matter what caliber they use as long as it's hitting the intended target and the shooter/agent/officer is able to make it home to his or her family...

[klewis]

Weren't the FBI working with a new 9mm bullet design that was a bit hush hush about a year ago? I want to say Doc mentioned it, but I can't be sure. Anyone remember/know what I'm talking about?

[Rich]

I see why the FBI would want a 9mm. small guys and gals who join or who have problems with recoil /pain .

If its about recoil and making the min 12inches?

I think the standard pressure federal 124 Bonded is the way to go!

or a newer design load with less recoil than the standard pressure 124gr load !