I don't think it was the double-action trigger pull that Cooper objected to. It was the difference between the initial DA pull and the subsequent SA pull. CRUNCH then tick. Hence, crunchentickers. He didn't like the transition.Originally Posted by Dave J
Rosco
Tanfoglio had problems with their heat treating and slide machining on their earlier 10mm models. I know its your frame which cracked,but the companys adjusted some things since the 00's. The Elite models also have user replaceable front and rear sights, and those pistols are hand finished .
I doubt well definitively answer the question here, but id deduce the reason he disliked DA/SA handguns has to do with the culture of the times, versus actual merits of the system.
Before Jeff Cooper changed the game, there was no USPSA or combat handgun training as we know it. Before the "Modern Technique" the typical viewpoint seemed to be that semi autos were niche guns, and that real pistoleros hauled revolvers. Getting people to accept the merits of carrying semi autos with the hammer back and safety on was an uphill battle in an age where chamber empty carry was the norm. Then one day the Germans invented a gun which could be carried with the hammer down, ready to fire, and didnt require the user to have to manipulate a loaded pistol to "render safe".
Now his job just got harder. Spreading acceptance of a new and better system is never easy in any profession, and now Jeff Cooper had to defend Cocked and Locked as a philosophy to people who considered "normal carry " to be hammer down on an loaded or empty chamber, used to cocking the piece on the draw.I read some books by Elmer Keith, and in one of them a third party is quoted to have considered the Colonels technique "reckless", as sensible men of the 40s and 50s carried semi autos hammer down, or not at all.
I'd postulate he got so fed up with people resisting his teachings that he simply rejected the entire concept of DA/SA for all time.
Last edited by GardoneVT; 07-21-2014 at 01:01 PM.
The Minority Marksman.
"When you meet a swordsman, draw your sword: Do not recite poetry to one who is not a poet."
-a Ch'an Buddhist axiom.
I think you are correct. I skimmed back thorugh some of the old Commentaries, which I hadn't read in several years, and in vol. 9, he wrote, "The drawback of the crunchenticker is that if the trigger finger is correctly placed for the crunch it is wrong for the tick, and vice versa." Thus, he advocated thumb cocking or shot cocking as a means to avoid the transitition.
And a careful read would corroborate that that was in fact his objection, but that's not how it got interpreted by the majority of his readership.
(Even his actual complaint about the horrible difficulty of the CRUNCH-tick transition is overblown, I think, though.)
ETA: Tangentially-related to the "thumb cocking or shot cocking to get past the transition thing"...
At my first class with Louis Awerbuck, a Handgun I class, he noticed I was having some problems with milking the grip when shooting SHO or WHO at any speed. This being a Handgun I class with two relays of twelve students, Louis suggested just lifting my pinkie off the gun... and it fixed the problem. Or, more accurately, it masked it. A year later I'm at an AFHF class and Todd notices my odd one-handed grip and asks if I'm drinking tea or something. I tell him where it came from, and he looks at me and says "How about we try shooting the gun right?"
Last edited by Tamara; 07-21-2014 at 02:42 PM.
yes
Jeff Cooper did have issues with DA/SA pistols. However, he never considered thumbcocking or shot cocking or crunching through as the ideal way to manage such pistols. If you actually read Cooper, you quickly realize that he preferred the "Weaver Method" of trigger control when shooting a DA pistol of any short. As best I can determine, the "Weaver Method" is indistinguishable from the "pressout" that Todd advocates. The shooter starts working the trigger as the gun is driven to extension - sound familiar to anyone? Coopers main concern with this method was that it required a high level of shooter devotion to master.
- It's not the odds, it's the stakes.
- If you aren't dry practicing every week, you're not serious.....
- "Tache-Psyche Effect - a polite way of saying 'You suck.' " - GG
Some words work so well they never go out of style. Now, the derogatory emphasis JC put on it may fade with age, the word itself is quite appropriate.
I got the same suggestion from the same person. You misunderstood the point of having you take the pinky off.And a careful read would corroborate that that was in fact his objection, but that's not how it got interpreted by the majority of his readership.
(Even his actual complaint about the horrible difficulty of the CRUNCH-tick transition is overblown, I think, though.)
ETA: Tangentially-related to the "thumb cocking or shot cocking to get past the transition thing"...
At my first class with Louis Awerbuck, a Handgun I class, he noticed I was having some problems with milking the grip when shooting SHO or WHO at any speed. This being a Handgun I class with two relays of twelve students, Louis suggested just lifting my pinkie off the gun... and it fixed the problem. Or, more accurately, it masked it. A year later I'm at an AFHF class and Todd notices my odd one-handed grip and asks if I'm drinking tea or something. I tell him where it came from, and he looks at me and says "How about we try shooting the gun right?"
But who am I to get in the way of a completely off-topic and self-serving thread hijack...
You're such a model of decorum.
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